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Likelihood Marriott will Take Away Lounge Access from Platinum During Next Downgrade?

Likelihood Marriott will Take Away Lounge Access from Platinum During Next Downgrade?

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Old Feb 2, 19, 10:10 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Nuhusky View Post
...if a plat shows up to the same hotel before me, they get my upgrade and they get into the lounge. Why did I spend more money at Marriott to get the same treatment as a plat...I think how airlines do status makes sense
I donít know for sure, but donít think thatís how upgrades work (whoever shows up first).

If you show early, there may not be upgraded rooms ready/cleaned to offer you (I think they assume when you show up you want to check in now, not several hours from now). Maybe there werenít any when you checked in, but someone left early or canceled; should they chase you down, offer you the upgrade, and take two rooms out of revenue because the one you first checked into canít be sold again until itís cleaned and housekeeping releases it?

Maybe a PLT gets an upgrade because s/he is only staying one night to your three and the hotel is sold out on your second and third nights with paid guests in the higher-tier rooms. Would you want to take an upgrade only for part of your stay and have to move in the middle of it?

Youíre also assuming you always spend more than a PLT per night and/or per year; itís quite as likely youíd be wrong as right about that. In fact itís quite possible there are no-status MR/MBv members that spend more than you on any given night. If money talks in upgrades then whoever paid the highest rate should get upgraded regardless of status.

Those are just the questions and possibilities I can think of off the cuff. Its not that your opinion is unpopular; itís that it may not be completely thought through.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 1:11 am
  #17  
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Thing is, it is easy to say they should devalue plat when you are sitting at titanium or ambassador. On the road to getting that 75-100 nights, it would be a lot harder to stick with Marriott if I had to do 74 nights without lounge access. I honestly just wouldn't do it. I'd pick another hotel that got me there quicker or I'd just pick the most convenient hotels and buy the rooms with lounge access paying a bit more, but staying a lot less nights a year out.

The trick is adding value to titanium. I am not sure how they will do that, but I am shooting for that status this year anyways. I want more suite upgrades.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 2:11 am
  #18  
 
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Why would you think they would do that? That is one benefit I would definitely not cut, as its cost is really low.
What we will definitely see is different upgrade priorities. Differentiation could come from the fact that Bonvoy Plats, in 2/3 years timeframe, could not be eligible to Suite Upgrades, only when they use SNAs. Or that Ambassadors could have a suite upgrade guarantee or a Your24 guarantee.
But that is only speculation. Let's see how they handle the Feb 13th transition...
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Old Feb 3, 19, 3:44 am
  #19  
 
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Any hotell chain would love to have customers who stay 50 nights each year. That's a lot of money if you think about it so not sure it's wise to piss this category off.
There's really no reason to remove lounge benefit for platinums as the cost for lounge is pretty low/visitor. I could see Marriott remove the suit upgrade though for platinums though in some future but my understanding is that there's already some kind of priority list in place with Ambassador first, Titaniums second and Platinums third for the suite upgrades.

Would be interesting to know how many platinums exist. The first step Marriott has taken was to cut down the count for number of stays. So it's already gotten more difficult to achieve Platinum status. Number of platinums will probably go down each year now thanks to the amount of stays from the SPG days won't matter anymore.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 4:01 am
  #20  
 
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Let's not kid ourselves here. Marriott, and any other loyalty program operator, makes decisions around elite tier benefits based on data. Lots and lots of it.

They will continuously analyze the behavior and spend of their program population by tier level, look for revenue lifts and drops by segment , and compare this to benefits usage and cost in collaboration with properties.

They will also continously benchmark against their major competitors and buy lots of 3rd party data to detect any shifts in market share - again, on a very segmented basis.

Based on all of the above, the program will be calibrated to maximize contribution and minimize cost. That's it.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 5:03 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by AAir_head View Post


I donít know for sure, but donít think thatís how upgrades work (whoever shows up first).

If you show early, there may not be upgraded rooms ready/cleaned to offer you (I think they assume when you show up you want to check in now, not several hours from now). Maybe there werenít any when you checked in, but someone left early or canceled; should they chase you down, offer you the upgrade, and take two rooms out of revenue because the one you first checked into canít be sold again until itís cleaned and housekeeping releases it?

Maybe a PLT gets an upgrade because s/he is only staying one night to your three and the hotel is sold out on your second and third nights with paid guests in the higher-tier rooms. Would you want to take an upgrade only for part of your stay and have to move in the middle of it?

Youíre also assuming you always spend more than a PLT per night and/or per year; itís quite as likely youíd be wrong as right about that. In fact itís quite possible there are no-status MR/MBv members that spend more than you on any given night. If money talks in upgrades then whoever paid the highest rate should get upgraded regardless of status.

Those are just the questions and possibilities I can think of off the cuff. Its not that your opinion is unpopular; itís that it may not be completely thought through.
yeah sure letís assume a plat stays at nothing but Ritz-Carlton hotels and does spend more than titanium members. Thatís why the way airlines do upgrades works

upgrades based on status tier then spend. Even if you have a plat who spends $100k they would not be upgraded over a titanium who spends $12k. Iím also of the opinion that if a hotel knows a higher status member is arriving during a certain period they should hold the upgrade for that member vs lowly gold or platinum. Many a times Iíve been on work trips where lower tier co workers got suites while I didnít just because of the time of day they showed up to the hotel

i should not have to guess when a room is magically going to be cleaned if I want an upgrade
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Old Feb 3, 19, 5:18 am
  #22  
 
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Marriott had a lounge overcrowding problem at some hotels and needed to thin down numbers or expand provision. Itís taken action to do both. Firstly itís introduced the M lounge concept with larger low-floor lounges offering more space. Secondly itís reduced the shortcuts to 50-nights. So no more credit card night stacking, limiting meeting nights credit to once each year, ending status buyback, ending rollovers, ending 25-stay qualification and superceding the credit card ď$3,000 spend to 1 EQNĒ card. These combined actions should reduce the number of 50-night elites and increase capacity too.

I canít see that Marriott has any wish to cut Plat lounge access out, indeed the actions taken seem to confirm itís commitment to a 50-night lounge access program, but if numbers remain more than hotels can cope with, other limitations could be applied, perhaps making lounge access a Plat amenity choice benefit, or provide Plats with a limited number of lounge access e-vouchers each year or follow the Hilton Gold example and make lounge access dependent upon Exec Room upgrades.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 6:10 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by naumank View Post
Now that they have created additional tiers like Titanium and Ambassador, what do you think the likelihood is that Marriott will take away lounge access from Platinum members during the next downgrade of the Bonvoy program (say in a year or two)? SPG used to give lounge access to their gold members but removed that benefit a few years ago. Hyatt, on the other hand, gives 4 lounge access to their Explorist tier. In addition, the current PP members are complaining that there is little differentiation for their more advanced status. Would the same happen to Platinum members down the road?
Judging that Titanium and Ambassador is NOT new tier, just a renamed one, I don't think there will be any changes to the all tier benefits.

The renaming of titanium level pretty much just to make it more distinct than current version which pretty much 3 tiers can be called Platinums and that make some of people who really cares about correct tier recognition not very happy.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 6:36 am
  #24  
 
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For me,,Lounge access is big differentiation for choosing a hotel

Iím LT Platinum now and if I didnít get lounge access then Iíd choose hotel based on cost, location etc. resulting in fewer stays at Marriott hotels
Now lounge access gives a huge plus for choosing Marriott hotels
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Old Feb 3, 19, 7:53 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by alc View Post
No Lounge Access for Platinum status will only work if they first let you get LTPP (or I should say LTT) again . Otherwise anyone who starting staying Marriott now will not get lounge access from the highest LTP status, which the question - why bother give Marriott the loyalty then.
+1. Despite the merger issues, the carrot of LTP being within my sight is the main reason I'm continuing to book.

If they devalued LTP to remove lounge access I'd be taking a major pause with Marriott since there wouldn't any value add over LTG.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 8:35 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by Duke787 View Post
If they devalued LTP to remove lounge access I'd be taking a major pause with Marriott since there wouldn't any value add over LTG.
Then the question is why bother with Plat when you could be Gold etc. An ever descending spiral.

lounges arent expensive to operate. It's far cheaper to stock a lounge for breakfast than give out breakfast coupons at the restaurant. Heck, a Fairfield inn does breakfast for everyone - that shows how cutting it for Plats would do nothing significant to your bottom line, and piss off a lot of people.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 8:59 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket View Post
I think one thing they could do for Lifetime Tits would be to give SNA awards (or whatever benefit you choose each year) so you don't have to earn 50.
Do keep us abreast of developments.
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Old Feb 3, 19, 9:32 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Nuhusky View Post
Although I’d say it would be pretty dumb of Marriott to remove this benefit for platinum I would actually be in favor of such a change

im looking for Marriott to distinguish titanium over lower tiers and right now there isn’t enough “do you know who I am” with titanium

if a plat shows up to the same hotel before me, they get my upgrade and they get into the lounge. Why did I spend more money at Marriott to get the same treatment as a plat

unless Marriott is willing to give a titanium more I’m in favor of taking away from others to make top status more valuable

i think how airlines do status makes sense. My upgrade for a plane seat is based on status tier and then dollar spend in that tier. If two platinums show up for a room the person who gets it should be the one who spends the most money not the first to check in. Similarily a titanium should always get the upgrade over a platinum, no questions asked

until marriott gets this right, take away platinum benefits please

for what it’s worth, I know my opinion won’t be popular
Please don't assume that all airlines prioritize upgrades exactly the same way as AA does. For starters, unlike AA, DL and UA do NOT consider revenue, although both have an unpublished invitation only status level that's based on revenue. In the case of DL, free elite upgrade priority is based on status level, fare class, AmEx DL Reserve card, corporate contract, some other stuff, and then upgrade request time as the final tiebreaker. Revenue during the last year or something similar does not appear anywhere in the list.
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Last edited by MSPeconomist; Feb 3, 19 at 9:37 am
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Old Feb 3, 19, 10:13 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Nuhusky View Post


yeah sure let’s assume a plat stays at nothing but Ritz-Carlton hotels and does spend more than titanium members. That’s why the way airlines do upgrades works

upgrades based on status tier then spend. Even if you have a plat who spends $100k they would not be upgraded over a titanium who spends $12k. I’m also of the opinion that if a hotel knows a higher status member is arriving during a certain period they should hold the upgrade for that member vs lowly gold or platinum. Many a times I’ve been on work trips where lower tier co workers got suites while I didn’t just because of the time of day they showed up to the hotel

i should not have to guess when a room is magically going to be cleaned if I want an upgrade






A plat could stay at any property (doesn't have to be RC), pay rack or corporate rates, and easily spend more than a titanium on any given stay or through any given year. I don't think how the airlines do upgrades is relevant here--it's a completely different product: everyone shows at the same time and all the seats are available at the same time (you DO know "your seat" isn't really "your seat"...right?). And they all do it a little differently, with your spend factoring in more or less (or not at all) according to program. It's possible to have three top-tier flyers seated in coach together who all paid more for their seat than every person in F (none of whom are elite or top-tier) because they all walked up an hour before the flight. Do you think airlines should hold all the seats in the F cabin because the elites who spent the most money for the flight (or last year) should always get those seats? That would be silly. I don't think hotels work that way, either.

You said in your original post DYKWIA is important to you--okay, then: pony up the money and just buy the room you want. Presto: you'll probably (but not necessarily) spend the most money AND have the better room. You can even tell everyone about it and some may be very impressed. Maybe you'll spend so much they'll call you, say "Do YOU know who you are!?" and offer a super-secret invitation-only elite tier. Or you could call ahead, tell them exactly when you're arriving, and pointedly ask "DYKWIA?...Great, if you have an upgraded room available, I expect you to hold it for me until I get there." Maybe that will work, and maybe it won't. I don't know.

If you want to try to spend as little as possible and get the most out of it, play the game by the rules the program lays out just like everyone else. That means that a nicer room isn't "your upgrade"; it's a perk the hotel may or may not give. I am sure the hotel will leave a suite or premium room empty if they don't see a benefit in giving it as an upgrade--because it is empty doesn't mean they're required to upgrade you into it. I'm guessing it isn't exceedingly common that an upgraded room is available for the length of a given stay AND upgrading someone into it leaves another like it to be sold (if that's a factor for the property). There's a thread around here somewhere about the dark arts of revenue management; I don't pretend to understand it fully, but I'm sure they're not going to shoot themselves in the foot with upgrades--if they think they can sell it they're not going to give it away and we ought not begrudge the fact.

Upgrades are often a pleasant surprise (but sometimes not--like the this past weekend when I got "upgraded" into a executive suite that's also accessible, which is literally a pain in my back). I never book a room that's not acceptable to me hoping/expecting to get upgraded--that's just plain dumb. I'm perfectly happy to get the room I paid for and the lounge access/PAG I "earned" under the program rules--if that changes, so be it. MR/MBv doesn't "owe" me anything that's not in the T&C, which say upgrades are offered based on "availability"--a term that is exactly as squishy as it's meant to be and entirely at the discretion of the property. I'm very clear-eyed about the fact MR/MBv can change the T&C any time and for any reason. Status tiers and the hurdles to earn them have, can, and will certainly continue to change from time to time. "Lifetime" means "lifetime of the loyalty program", and that can be similarly changed as it was just recently. The whole program can be terminated with as little as 6 months notice (less in some jurisdictions)--that's all spelled out up front in the T&C. And if you don't think you're getting enough love, you can terminate it too...

cheers and happy travels!
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Last edited by AAir_head; Feb 3, 19 at 10:53 am
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Old Feb 3, 19, 10:13 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Please don't assume that all airlines prioritize upgrades exactly the same way as AA does. For starters, unlike AA, DL and UA do NOT consider revenue, although both have an unpublished invitation only status level that's based on revenue. In the case of DL, free elite upgrade priority is based on status level, fare class, AmEx DL Reserve card, corporate contract, some other stuff, and then upgrade request time as the final tiebreaker. Revenue during the last year or something similar does not appear anywhere in the list.


thats fair. I can only speak to how aa does upgrades and although it chafes me to see a ck key get upgrades before exp as the process to get ck is unpublished I at least understand the process and it’s fair. I also know if there is an exp above me on the upgrade list they are there because they spent more than o have in the last 12 months making them more valuable to aa than me

upgrades and the process are clearly defined vs some magic of first come first served regardless of value to the airline or elite tier

wouldnt it it be great to see a suite upgrade list in the lobby and see where you fall?
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