scubadu

Such as?

Regards

sdsearch

Yes, but I meant "guaranteed suite upgrades if available": As post 1 (which I quoted in the post you replied to) said:

Right now, lots of people with PP status don't get upgrades even when they are available (for example, many hotels give them to their frequent guests, rather than to Marriott program elites necessarily), so SNAs make sense to "force" the upgrade.

But if they switch to Titaniums having truly "guaranteed" upgrades as long as they're available, that situation of not getting upgrades even when the upgrade is available should vanish for Titaniums , and what would be the benefit of SNAs then? That's what I was asking. In other words, as phrased by post 1, the rumored change in benefits seem to be almost "automatic SNAs applied on every stay" for Titaniums, not just 5 (or 10) a year.

And remember, this thread is about a rumor, so what is actually practice regarding upgrades for PPs is irrelevant to this thread.

flyou10

MSPeconomist

uncommonsensical

no... you're just not in either a financials or industrial field. for those of us who are, it was literally our FIRST thought! there is a reason why diamond is often the top tier name- in the regular non-bizarro marriott world, the logic of naming your top tier after the most expensive is pretty much a given.

btw, my SECOND though was that they purposely named it titanium as a tell- to let us know in advance that, sometime soon, our vaunted 'titanium' status is, in fact, going to be worth far less than our old platinum,...

CCIE_Flyer

I would hear more of this. And what of those commercials that PROVE the superior strength of Charmin (Essentials) over the other leading brand? Should not they have considered a co-branding type of approach which leverages the irrefutable strength of Charmin (Elite?) over any other metal know to bumkind??

GoldenItalianBoy

As hockeyinsider told, Obviously I was talking about "comparable" rewards systems (Hilton, Marriott/Spg, Hatt, maybe ShangriLa and Radisson Rewards)

phltraveler

Digging up a couple week old thread to just say that I doubt there will be any short term (e.g. within the next three months) hard T&C benefit changes, because there'd be outrage.

Enter the days before the merger, SPG has no 75 night lifetime level and 75/100 are really incremental (and not visible to the front desk). MR has a 75 night lifetime level and a secret 100+ night level with no published criteria. They give an overly generous status match of SPG Gold (25 nights/10 stays) to MR Gold (50 nights) and SPG Plat (50 nights/25 stays) to MR Plat (75 nights). Merger comes around and all sides are sensitive. MR decides to keep the old Rewards program name temporarily during the transition. The old names (Silver/Gold/Plat) are kept so none of the SPG elites get "downgraded" (old SPG Gold -> New MR Gold, old SPG Plat, new MR plat) including lifetime mapping. Cue outrage from SPG Elites that old MR Plats get a new 75 night tier (Plat Premier and lifetime if criteria met), MR submits and comes up with an alternate way to get one shot at LTPP by qualifying 750 nights + 10 years at plat by end of 2018 to give SPG elites a bite of the apple. Outrage subsides.

So now we merge with a rocky IT merger between SPG and MR to new MR and the FDC clerks at both MR properties (not realizing the new codes/mapping) and the SPG properties using Lightspeed (which only reflected the 50 night level, hence why 75/100+$20K spend levels were Platinum Premier and Platinum Premier with ambassador - all of them at SPG properties are greeted by FDC as platinum).

Hard benefits are largely the same, 48 hour guarantee PP room @ rackrate is driven by reservations/Marriott.com, bonus points percentages are backend, and an ambassador just picks up the phone or emails the hotel. For the 50 night (particularly lifetime) elites, there aren't many hard benefits advantages to going to 75 or 100 that they did not have before (namely the points bonus thresholds were matched from old program).

So now MR has a rocky IT merger out of the way (and the embarrassment of the Starwood data breach incident). Many SPG properties have now migrated off the old Starwood reservations system/Lightspeed PMS to MARSHA/Opera PMS that will reflect statuses above 50 night plat properly to FDC. Benefits changes have had time for hotels to get used to, MR wants to dump the Rewards/SPG names in favor of something divorced from the merger troubles - enter Bonvoy. Now that other benefits changes have circulated and levels above 50 nights can reflect properly at the SPG side front desk, the next step is to set them apart in name, to train FDC that there's a difference. But hey, no benefits changes:
So no worries for the 25/50 night (current or lifetime) elites, nothing is being taken away or newly given to the harder to attain (current)/impossible to attain (lifetime) higher ranks- it's just a rebrand. To the front desk clerks, they can now get used to addressing people by the new rank names for 75/100 - to recognize that there is a difference between 75+ and 100+ night + 20K spending elites from the 50 night level of plat.

Once you get all of the SPG properties off the Starwood Reservations system onto MARSHA (where all properties can tell the difference), hubbub over the rebrand dies down, and properties get used to the existence of the different ranks - then you go in for any benefits enhancements/reductions. Bury it in the fine print, less attention to the details then if they were bundled in the rebrand, properties now aware of addressing the newly renamed elite levels properly.

Short version: Don't expect any benefits changes on Feb 13th with Bonvoy because MR has stated that there will not be any. The difference in names (Titanium/Ambassador instead of Plat/Plat Premier/Plat Premier with Ambassador) may help soft/subjective property treatment in the short term, but nothing guaranteed by the T&C.
Later in 2019- nothing is confirmed, everything is possible, and I would wager (personal opinion, no inside sources or documentation) that benefit changes are likely in later 2019.

fdem

hockeyinsider

I don't see Marriott making any negative changes to the loyalty terms in 2019, especially considering they have changed the award-redemption chart pricing four times in 14 months. If they did more changes it would result in customers leaving for Hyatt or Hilton because while Marriott is within its right to change the program whenever it wants there needs to stability and you can't have that if everything is always changing.

I'm really hoping the dynamic pricing is a flop and Marriott has to change it or end it. Up to 100,000 points per night for properties is absurd.

pinniped

When I first heard that Bonvoy would include Titanium, my first thought was that they were going to shuffle everything back up a level. So it would go Titanium - Silver - Gold - Platinum. We'd all be Platinums again, like we were in both Marriott and Starwood (with Plat 100 as they need it).

I didn't expect that the *top* would be Titanium. That's kind of funny to me, but I guess it doesn't matter. (Titanium is worth about 2 bucks an ounce, IIRC.)

JBord

While you may be correct, taking away lounge access would be a significant reduction. Marriott 50 nighters (old Gold, now Platinum) always had lounge access. I think they'd potentially lose a lot of high-value business travleers to Hilton or just to free agency if they did this. Not to mention the LT Platinums...lounge access is the most significant benefit we get in my opinion.

phltraveler

I'm equally disappointed in the award chart particularly the on-peak/standard/peak rates and category changes.

No, I don't see it as likely that erosion of benefits before EOY, but enhancements, which may take the form of codifying upgrade priority a higher for Titanium and Ambassador. You could call that a potential demotion for plats but they'd still technically be eligible for upgrades including select suites.
Or something like free parking (at properties that charge for self-park) for Titanium/Ambassador. Again, not taking a benefit away from anyone, just granting a new one.

Magic Pickles

pinniped

Access to *some* kind of breakfast is a substantial benefit. Removing that from the 50-night tier would almost certainly push people to Hilton or Hyatt.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Marriott follows the Hilton model of removing *lounge* from the guarantee. I spent a couple years as HH Gold under that model, and it sometimes worked for you, sometimes against you. Domestically, the restaurant is often better than the lounge. Internationally, the lounges are usually better.

I can't tell where Marriott wants to go with their lounges. Some of them are pretty lame and you can tell the property doesn't even want to deal with a lounge, and at other properties they're actually building out newer, better lounges. Even Sheraton, which has some truly awful lounges, also has done some nice renovations to them in recent years.