Marriott reservation done just before points expiry date, still fine and paid for?
Jan 10, 2019, 4:55 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Marriott reservation done just before points expiry date, still fine and paid for?
Hello friends,
In December I had 53,000 points in my Marriott account (points were acquired at SPG) that were about to expire end of 2018
To not lose them I made a reservation for 2 nights in Istanbul for 50,000 points in September 2019 and 3,000 points remained in my account
Now my 3,000 points expired, my balance is 0 and I have the reservation on the website that looks valid
So is my reservation paid for with those 50,000 points, if I stay there in September will it be a Free Night Stay
Thanks a lot
In December I had 53,000 points in my Marriott account (points were acquired at SPG) that were about to expire end of 2018
To not lose them I made a reservation for 2 nights in Istanbul for 50,000 points in September 2019 and 3,000 points remained in my account
Now my 3,000 points expired, my balance is 0 and I have the reservation on the website that looks valid
So is my reservation paid for with those 50,000 points, if I stay there in September will it be a Free Night Stay
Thanks a lot
Jan 10, 2019, 6:37 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cockeysville, MD
Programs: Marriott Rewards Lifetime Titanium, Amex Plat, Hertz Gold 5*, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 9,467
No. I believe you lost the points. You have to use the points before expiration-not just reserve. A call to Marriott will confirm either way.
Jan 10, 2019, 9:02 am
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,398
Some Starriott reservations show whether a certificate is attached or not. That might tell you something if you can't reach a knowledgeable agent by phone, which will almost certainly be the case if you call. It sounds to me like the 50,000 points were applied to the reservation before they expired, but this could be caught later of course. Since MR and now Starriott seem to officially use these certificates that are implicitly purchased with points for award stays, the spending of points (which would be refundable up to the cancellation deadline) could be viewed as the transaction rather than the stay, which would avoid issues with points that expire after check in but before checkout.
Jan 10, 2019, 11:59 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NC
Programs: AA, Marriott/SPG, AMEX
Posts: 272
See Marriotts Rewards TOS, specifically:
"1.6.d. Points Expiration Policy. Members must remain active in the Loyalty Program to retain Points they accumulate. If a Member Account is inactive for twenty-four (24) consecutive months, that Member Account will forfeit all accumulated Points. Members can remain active in the Loyalty Program and retain accumulated Points by earning Points or Miles in the Loyalty Program or redeeming Points in the Loyalty Program at least once every twenty-four (24) months, subject to the exceptions described below. If a Member does not maintain an active status for five (5) consecutive years, the Member’s account may be deactivated. Once Points are forfeited, the Points cannot be reinstated, but a Member can earn new Points, unless that Member’s account has been deactivated.
i. Not all Points activities help maintain active status in the Loyalty Program. The following activities do not count toward maintaining an active status in the Loyalty Program:
A. Gifting or transferring Points; however, converting Points to Miles or Miles to Points does count toward maintaining an active status;
B. Receiving Points as a gift or transfer; or
C. Earning Points through social media programs, such as #MRPoints .
ii. Awards redeemed by a Member prior to Point forfeiture are still valid even though the Award may not yet have been fulfilled at the time of Point forfeiture.
iii. The Points expiration policy does not currently affect Points in a Lifetime Elite Membership Account; however, the Loyalty Program may choose to apply a Points expiration policy to Lifetime Elite Membership Accounts in the future.
iv. Points issued or earned through Vistana, including, without limitation, tour incentives, purchase incentives, SPG Conversion, sweepstakes and other giveaway prizes, will expire six (6) years following the date they are deposited into a Member’s Account, regardless of Member activity. All such Points or any portion thereof, which have not been redeemed by their six (6) year expiration period, will be forfeited without notice."
"1.6.d. Points Expiration Policy. Members must remain active in the Loyalty Program to retain Points they accumulate. If a Member Account is inactive for twenty-four (24) consecutive months, that Member Account will forfeit all accumulated Points. Members can remain active in the Loyalty Program and retain accumulated Points by earning Points or Miles in the Loyalty Program or redeeming Points in the Loyalty Program at least once every twenty-four (24) months, subject to the exceptions described below. If a Member does not maintain an active status for five (5) consecutive years, the Member’s account may be deactivated. Once Points are forfeited, the Points cannot be reinstated, but a Member can earn new Points, unless that Member’s account has been deactivated.
i. Not all Points activities help maintain active status in the Loyalty Program. The following activities do not count toward maintaining an active status in the Loyalty Program:
A. Gifting or transferring Points; however, converting Points to Miles or Miles to Points does count toward maintaining an active status;
B. Receiving Points as a gift or transfer; or
C. Earning Points through social media programs, such as #MRPoints .
ii. Awards redeemed by a Member prior to Point forfeiture are still valid even though the Award may not yet have been fulfilled at the time of Point forfeiture.
iii. The Points expiration policy does not currently affect Points in a Lifetime Elite Membership Account; however, the Loyalty Program may choose to apply a Points expiration policy to Lifetime Elite Membership Accounts in the future.
iv. Points issued or earned through Vistana, including, without limitation, tour incentives, purchase incentives, SPG Conversion, sweepstakes and other giveaway prizes, will expire six (6) years following the date they are deposited into a Member’s Account, regardless of Member activity. All such Points or any portion thereof, which have not been redeemed by their six (6) year expiration period, will be forfeited without notice."
Jan 10, 2019, 3:06 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NC
Programs: AA, Marriott/SPG, AMEX
Posts: 272
"To not lose them I made a reservation for 2 nights in Istanbul for 50,000 points in September 2019 and 3,000 points remained in my account
Now my 3,000 points expired, my balance is 0 and I have the reservation on the website that looks valid
So is my reservation paid for with those 50,000 points, if I stay there in September will it be a Free Night Stay"
OP will lose 3,000 points not 53,000
(I have no idea how to quote an earlier post so I did an exact copy and paste from OP's post)
Jan 10, 2019, 3:37 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
I do hope help my reply helps others but I do think it will help OP since I answered his query
"To not lose them I made a reservation for 2 nights in Istanbul for 50,000 points in September 2019 and 3,000 points remained in my account
Now my 3,000 points expired, my balance is 0 and I have the reservation on the website that looks valid
So is my reservation paid for with those 50,000 points, if I stay there in September will it be a Free Night Stay"
OP will lose 3,000 points not 53,000
(I have no idea how to quote an earlier post so I did an exact copy and paste from OP's post)
"To not lose them I made a reservation for 2 nights in Istanbul for 50,000 points in September 2019 and 3,000 points remained in my account
Now my 3,000 points expired, my balance is 0 and I have the reservation on the website that looks valid
So is my reservation paid for with those 50,000 points, if I stay there in September will it be a Free Night Stay"
OP will lose 3,000 points not 53,000
(I have no idea how to quote an earlier post so I did an exact copy and paste from OP's post)
Regarding the Quote function - just click the Quote button at the bottom of the post you would like to reply. Next to it it has a Multi-Quote too. If you want to reply to multiple posts, click the Multi-quote on each one and the Quote on the last post you want to reply - Voila, all posts are "quoted" in your reply.
Jan 10, 2019, 4:55 pm
#8
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NC
Programs: AA, Marriott/SPG, AMEX
Posts: 272
The OP has to use the reservation. Any change to the reservation his 50K would be gone.
Regarding the Quote function - just click the Quote button at the bottom of the post you would like to reply. Next to it it has a Multi-Quote too. If you want to reply to multiple posts, click the Multi-quote on each one and the Quote on the last post you want to reply - Voila, all posts are "quoted" in your reply.
Regarding the Quote function - just click the Quote button at the bottom of the post you would like to reply. Next to it it has a Multi-Quote too. If you want to reply to multiple posts, click the Multi-quote on each one and the Quote on the last post you want to reply - Voila, all posts are "quoted" in your reply.
Thank you very much for the quote tutorial, much appreciated
Jan 10, 2019, 4:56 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
See Marriotts Rewards TOS, specifically:
"1.6.d. Points Expiration Policy. Members must remain active in the Loyalty Program to retain Points they accumulate. If a Member Account is inactive for twenty-four (24) consecutive months, that Member Account will forfeit all accumulated Points. Members can remain active in the Loyalty Program and retain accumulated Points by earning Points or Miles in the Loyalty Program or redeeming Points in the Loyalty Program at least once every twenty-four (24) months, subject to the exceptions described below. If a Member does not maintain an active status for five (5) consecutive years, the Member’s account may be deactivated. Once Points are forfeited, the Points cannot be reinstated, but a Member can earn new Points, unless that Member’s account has been deactivated.
...
"1.6.d. Points Expiration Policy. Members must remain active in the Loyalty Program to retain Points they accumulate. If a Member Account is inactive for twenty-four (24) consecutive months, that Member Account will forfeit all accumulated Points. Members can remain active in the Loyalty Program and retain accumulated Points by earning Points or Miles in the Loyalty Program or redeeming Points in the Loyalty Program at least once every twenty-four (24) months, subject to the exceptions described below. If a Member does not maintain an active status for five (5) consecutive years, the Member’s account may be deactivated. Once Points are forfeited, the Points cannot be reinstated, but a Member can earn new Points, unless that Member’s account has been deactivated.
...
Jan 10, 2019, 5:04 pm
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Jan 10, 2019, 5:07 pm
#11
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 3,360
I can see the validity of that argument, as the points have indeed been removed from the account. That said, I doubt Marriott will take that perspective because there hasn't really been a change in "ownership" of the points. The points haven't been paid out to the hotel. It's semantics, at this point. Unfortunately, it's Marriott who gets to define the meaning of terms like redemption here.
Jan 10, 2019, 7:04 pm
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
Here is how Marriott works when it extends the account expiration date - redemption itself does NOT extend the last activity date.
The ACTUAL STAY would. I am sure there are languages to that effect, as in the Eligible Activities that would count - that for reward redemption, it is NOT considered as an activity in the sense of giving another 24 months of life of the account, UNTIL THE REWARD IS CONSUMED, i.e. the Stay happened.
The above has been observed and discussed a lot when the then "new" 24 month policy was introduced. If you are so inclined to spend your time, pretty much the languages are there - at least I have read that when the policy is first introduced and people found out a redemption did zilch to their last date of activity, UNTIL the stay has happened (and the stay is POSTED.)
In my account, the last 4 stays were all point redemption made between Aug and Sept. The stays happened in Oct and Nov with the 2 Nov stays not posted until last week of Dec after I contacted SPG lurker. My account was stuck in the last activity in Oct, but changed to the last Nov stay checked out date after the stays finally were posted in 3rd week of Dec.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 10, 2019 at 7:11 pm
Jan 10, 2019, 7:15 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
I can see the validity of that argument, as the points have indeed been removed from the account. That said, I doubt Marriott will take that perspective because there hasn't really been a change in "ownership" of the points. The points haven't been paid out to the hotel. It's semantics, at this point. Unfortunately, it's Marriott who gets to define the meaning of terms like redemption here.
The redemption must be CONSUMED, as you pointed out - change of ownership, to be considered as an eligible activity to be used in the "count" of the 24 months clock.
It is not even up for interpretation, but is written precisely.