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Upgrade policy T&Cs - hotel choosing not to upgrade to suites?

Upgrade policy T&Cs - hotel choosing not to upgrade to suites?

Old Jan 8, 2019, 2:48 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by boolean64
A focus on naming the property draws attention away from what is the bigger issue...that an ambassador seems quite ok with the idea that hotels don't have to offer any suites as part of the upgrade pool. That to me is much much bigger than finding out which property this is.
Originally Posted by boolean64
Identifying the hotel may help us understand whether the hotel's no suite policy is credible or not. But knowing the hotel has no impact on the credibility of the Ambassador's statement, which as I stated previously is the real troubling part of this thread.

The ambassador (which i interpret as a written response in an e-mail) wrote "I am not sure why the hotel chose not to [include any suites in their upgrade pool] but that is the hotel's decision." How on earth would identifying the property change the validity of what the ambassador wrote? If it was the Westin then "that is the hotel's decision" is a credible response from an Ambassador but if it was the Sheraton then the Ambassador's blanket statement about hotel discretion about suites is not credible? Doesn't make sense to me.
If the hotel in question has very few suites (less than 5% or perhaps 10%) then it isn’t inconcievable that the upgrade pool doesn’t include suites. Not knowing what hotel it is makes this all an exercise in assumption and futility. That’s how on earth it might matter.

If the hotel does have few suites and therefore doesn’t have suites in its upgrade pool, then the Ambassador is being honest and accurate. That makes a big difference, and we can’t know that unless we know what hotel we are discussing. How convenient that the hotel remains unidentified.

Marriott terms below clearly indicate that a hotel can decide on its own what rooms or suites are in its upgrade pool. They don’t have to include suites. If the hotel has few suites, that is actually reasonable and appropriate to not necessarily have suites in the upgrade pool. If the hotel has many suites proportional to the overall room total, that is much less reasonable and appropriate.

Not identifying the hotel IMO is the first hint that the hotel likely has few suites proportionally and isn’t behaving so badly, after all. That leaves some pie on the face for those who want to assume the hotel and Ambassador are doing something nefarious. Until shown otherwise, I don’t think so.

Last edited by bhrubin; Jan 8, 2019 at 2:56 pm
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 2:56 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
For the record, hotels in Sydney:

Sheraton Grand Sydney Hyde Park, 510 rooms, 48 suites, 8.6% suites
Westin Sydney, 397 rooms, 19 suites, 4.6% suites
Pier One Sydney Harbour, 171 rooms, 18 suites, 9.5% suites
Sydney Harbour Marriott Circular Quay, 543 rooms. 52 suites, 8.7% suites
Old Clare Sydney, 45 rooms, 17 suites, 27% suites
Four Points Sydney Central Park, 252 rooms. 45 suites, 15% suites
Courtyard Sydney North Ryde. 188 rooms, 8 suites, 4.1% suites

We can assume that over half of any hotel’s suites are not going to be eligible for Platinum upgrades or SNAs. Perhaps even as high as 3/4. When you recognize that basic fact, it’s obvious that getting a suite upgrade at hotels with fewer than 10% suites is going to be challenging. And that assumes low occupancy. At higher occupancy, more suites may be outright booked, and there will be more competition for higher room bookings and elites to get upgraded into such a small number of suites. The numbers don’t lie.
Why can we assume that 1/2 or 3/4 of the hotel's suites aren't in the Plat upgrade pool or aren't available for SNAs? We have no way of knowing this without knowing something about the hotel's numbers of suites of each category, and even with this information, in many cases we would just be guessing. A hotel can have a small number of suites, all identical, and put them all in the Plat upgrade pool. Another hotel can have only specialty suites and normally refuse to allow them to be given either as Plat upgrades or for SNAs. It varies enormously and of course also depends on the GM's attitude.

ADDED: I also disagree with the assertion that the free Plat upgrade pool is the same as (or includes all of the suite categories in) the set of suites available for SNAs.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 3:10 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Why can we assume that 1/2 or 3/4 of the hotel's suites aren't in the Plat upgrade pool or aren't available for SNAs? We have no way of knowing this without knowing something about the hotel's numbers of suites of each category, and even with this information, in many cases we would just be guessing. A hotel can have a small number of suites, all identical, and put them all in the Plat upgrade pool. Another hotel can have only specialty suites and normally refuse to allow them to be given either as Plat upgrades or for SNAs. It varies enormously and of course also depends on the GM's attitude.

It is true that it varies by hotel. But generally, I would argue that any hotel will keep its top rooms/suites (specialty suites or rooms) to use only at its own discretion and not generally for any Platinum or SNA upgrade pool. We can disagree on this point, certainly. But my experience shows this to be almost universally true.

When a hotel has many suites, it’s just more likely that there are more categories of suites; namely, there are specialty suites normally unavailable for a Plat and SNA upgrades, and there are lower level suites and perhaps better category view rooms available for Plat and SNA upgrades.

When a hotel has few suites, it’s just more likely that those few suites are entirely part of the specialty suite group unavailable for Plat or SNA upgrades. The Plat and SNA upgrades in these hotels are more likely to be higher category/better view rooms rather than proper suites.

It’s all about likelihood—there can be a range, of course. Some hotels with fewer suites may be more generous AT THEIR DISCRETION. Some hotels with more suites may be more strict AT THEIR DISCRETION. That discretion will vary depending on the nature of the market, the hotel brand, and the average population of Platinum guests.

Few hotels overall make their best suites available for regular Plat and SNA upgrades. That’s perfectly appropriate IMO. But that being said, as both a SPG Plat100 Ambassador and as a Marriott Plat Premier with Ambassador, I’ve been upgraded to top level specialty suites on any number of occasions—almost always at hotels with a lot of suites, but even at hotels with just a few suites. And that’s why I’m such a fan of the Ambassador program, both before with SPG and now still with Marriott.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 3:15 pm
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Originally Posted by rny321
Since the term "select suites" is still listed on Marriott's website, I wouldn't consider it a myth. Also, brand standards are intended as minimum benefits and hotels are rarely prohibited from exceeding them.

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That's outdated and does not reflect the language in the terms and conditions.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 3:18 pm
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This topic seems to follow a familiar pattern that begins when somebody posts a complaint with too few details for the rest of FT to know if it is valid or not. Various members speculate what about what might have happened. Since the OP never fills in the blanks, the discussion continues along the original path for a while before moving trending towards other issues.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 3:24 pm
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
That's outdated and does not reflect the language in the terms and conditions.
Well, it's still on the website. In any case, the terms and conditions quoted above state that "Enhanced Room Upgrades are subject to availability and are identified by each Participating Property." As long as the hotel is able to define what qualifies for an upgrade, it is usually difficult for a guest to know if he or she was fairly or unfairly denied one. The broader language in Marriott's APAC policy makes it harder for covered hotels to deny suite upgrades. As I mentioned before, hotels are mostly free to provide benefits and upgrades beyond the minimums and many do.

Last edited by rny321; Jan 8, 2019 at 3:50 pm
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 3:25 pm
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Originally Posted by rny321
This topic seems to follow a familiar pattern that begins when somebody posts a complaint with too few details for the rest of FT to know if it is valid or not. Various members speculate what about what might have happened. Since the OP never fills in the blanks, the discussion continues along the original path for a while before moving trending towards other issues.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 5:01 pm
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Love the passionate debate.

I'm going to reaffirm and clear a few things up:
  • The purpose of this thread was to seek clarification on Marriott's upgrade policy. My previous understanding was that base/non-speciality suites were included in the upgrade pool (and that, in SPG days, the upgrade pool = the SNA pool).
  • As stated, I will not be naming the property. Despite the lack of suite upgrades, I enjoy staying at this property (and others in Sydney). If you can't deal with this omission, move on.
  • The hotel in question appeared to have low occupancy (very low room rates relative to std rates, and all suite types showing as available including 3+ rooms available of the base suite). This is why I emailed my ambassador to flag the lack of upgrade, and how I received a response from the ambassador desk advising that this hotel doesn't include suites in their upgrades. I have copied the ambassador's response verbatim, and provided their location in a previous post. Could the ambassador be wrong? Sure - this is why I posted on FT seeking clarification. Could the hotel have recently changed their policy? Sure - that's why other FT's previous experiences may not be as "valuable" as some would like to think.
  • Sorry if my join date or low post count lacks credibility. I've been lurking on FT for the better part of 10 years, and I stay 150+ nights in Marriott/SPG per year.
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Old Jan 8, 2019, 5:56 pm
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If I were an Ambassador elite guest staying regularly at a Sydney hotel that hasn’t ever upgraded me to a suite despite low occupancy and plentiful availability of suites, like the OP indicates, I would seriously question how that property really values my loyalty. I doubt I would continue staying at that hotel.

And if I were to continue staying at that hotel, then I’d clearly be sending the message that such behavior is acceptable to me. So it seems superfluous IMO to complain about that which has been accepted.

That’s never happened to me. Never. I’m an Ambassador guest in N America, supposedly the place where loyalty and elite recognition are consistently inferior to Asia/Pacific. Yet every hotel at which I’m a repeat guest—and I do mean every single one—I’ve been consistently if not always upgraded to a suite. (OK, the exception is the crappy Sheraton Times Square, but I’ve only stayed there with a group and never on my own.)
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Last edited by bhrubin; Jan 8, 2019 at 6:02 pm
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 8:52 am
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Originally Posted by ftaus
Love the passionate debate.

I'm going to reaffirm and clear a few things up:
  • The purpose of this thread was to seek clarification on Marriott's upgrade policy. My previous understanding was that base/non-speciality suites were included in the upgrade pool (and that, in SPG days, the upgrade pool = the SNA pool).
  • As stated, I will not be naming the property. Despite the lack of suite upgrades, I enjoy staying at this property (and others in Sydney). If you can't deal with this omission, move on.
I appreciate the fact that have read FT for several years before posting. From your post, it sounds like you were a legacy SPG member.

I hope you'll keep in mind in the future that FT is an exchange of information. We share information with others and others share information with us.

Saying that there is a hotel in Sydney that doesn't upgrade to any suites even when they have suites available without identifying that hotel isn't really fair to others who share information. We may wish to avoid that property or at least be aware of the issue.

In any event, you now know that its not Marriott's policy (Marriott still has a more generous policy for legacy Marriotts in the APAC).
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