Feb 9, 2019, 3:52 pm
Last edit by: swag
It's out now: https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
PDF of properties sorted by brand: https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
PDF of properties sorted by brand: https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
Annual Award Category Changes - Effective March 5, 2019.
Feb 10, 2019, 6:45 am
#76
Join Date: Dec 2003
Programs: AA Plat Pro, United Silver, Marriott LTT, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 1,120
Feb 10, 2019, 7:36 am
#77
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,790
Others in Europe are also dropping. Some very nice hotels in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland will drop one category and I don't see any increases in those countries, nor in Hungary (I was concerned about the Budapest Marriott, one of my favorite hotels).
Feb 10, 2019, 9:39 am
#78
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
Posts: 223
There are two UK hotels listed that are no longer part of the Marriott family !!
Feb 10, 2019, 1:33 pm
#79
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,654
The drops in Vienna are indeed nice but in Germany it’s just one hotel in Munich dropping that’s not even in the center of town.
Feb 10, 2019, 3:49 pm
#80
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TUL
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; Marriott Titanium; Hilton Diamond; Hyatt Explorist; Vistana 5* Elite; Nat'l Exec Elite
Posts: 6,177
From reading this thread and others, it appears those of you with a number of years with Marriott should have expected these changes in general.
I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.
It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.
Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.
It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.
Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
Feb 10, 2019, 4:28 pm
#81
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Sure. But at some point Marrirot (sic) may find that the rotting program value customers get out of the program's points makes the customers more likely to shop based on factors that Marriott may not like and which may also cost Marriott some revenue from selling points to loyalty program partners. But much as with the US airline industry's cartel kingpins, a consolidating hotel industry's cartel kingpins may also encourage lemming behavior at home and beyond as long as it seems to provide more immediate returns for the company regardless of the longer-term consequences on the business.
Feb 10, 2019, 4:59 pm
#82
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,900
From reading this thread and others, it appears those of you with a number of years with Marriott should have expected these changes in general.
I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.
It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.
Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.
It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.
Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
Feb 10, 2019, 7:29 pm
#84
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TUL
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; Marriott Titanium; Hilton Diamond; Hyatt Explorist; Vistana 5* Elite; Nat'l Exec Elite
Posts: 6,177
Feb 10, 2019, 9:18 pm
#85
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SFO
Posts: 487
I thought SPG used something like a property's annual revenue or profitability to determine its category, but I guess it was ADR. Whatever the case, one argument Marriott made for the merger was they needed it help compete with Airbnb and similar. I haven't seen MR do anything to address this.
Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
Feb 11, 2019, 6:16 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,654
I just do NOT get that warm and fuzzy trusting feeling with Marriott that I had with Starwood and they've given us several reasons recently to feel this way.
I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop on the peak award pricing and then I think there's going to be a lot more people playing the free agent field.
Last edited by christianj; Feb 11, 2019 at 6:23 am
Feb 11, 2019, 6:54 am
#87
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: AA, Delta, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 250
CC certs
Marriott sets the reward category not in hotel price or quality but redemption demand. They just switch to mostly CC certs of 35k. Thus greater demand on properties in the category. This is a great example designed inflation.
In most cases, even for 5th night free redemptions, remaining loyal to creat MR point for Hotel redemptions wasn’t the best usage of MR, now BR, points. It’s easy to 1ccp transfered to airlines. Hotel nights are often around ½ ccp.
But the CC don’t give point but certs. In a short couple of years 25k certs being useful, thus the cards worth their annual fee. To being difficult to find a place to use them. Now the 35k certs are become just as much deadwood. Hotel earnings alone are no reason to keep the Marriott branded credit cards. It’s just silly to use a 35k cert for a hotel I can purchase for $150-200/night but that’s what these catagory changes do since they’re unrelated to the actual purchase cost of night. There not much encentive in loyalty.
The price difference between getting a basic room and status upgrade with lounge access and no status but getting a package with breakfast isn’t much for leisure travel. It’s not a big step to just ignore the brand an only look at immediate price forgetting the reducing benefits of a loyalty program
In most cases, even for 5th night free redemptions, remaining loyal to creat MR point for Hotel redemptions wasn’t the best usage of MR, now BR, points. It’s easy to 1ccp transfered to airlines. Hotel nights are often around ½ ccp.
But the CC don’t give point but certs. In a short couple of years 25k certs being useful, thus the cards worth their annual fee. To being difficult to find a place to use them. Now the 35k certs are become just as much deadwood. Hotel earnings alone are no reason to keep the Marriott branded credit cards. It’s just silly to use a 35k cert for a hotel I can purchase for $150-200/night but that’s what these catagory changes do since they’re unrelated to the actual purchase cost of night. There not much encentive in loyalty.
The price difference between getting a basic room and status upgrade with lounge access and no status but getting a package with breakfast isn’t much for leisure travel. It’s not a big step to just ignore the brand an only look at immediate price forgetting the reducing benefits of a loyalty program
Feb 11, 2019, 7:16 am
#88
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Englandshire
Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
Posts: 16,016
Of course this has never, ever happened bef
re, but just in case something gets quietly changed, attached is todays version of the category change pdf for future reference.
re, but just in case something gets quietly changed, attached is todays version of the category change pdf for future reference.
Feb 11, 2019, 7:31 am
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
But the CC don’t give point but certs. In a short couple of years 25k certs being useful, thus the cards worth their annual fee. To being difficult to find a place to use them. Now the 35k certs are become just as much deadwood. Hotel earnings alone are no reason to keep the Marriott branded credit cards. It’s just silly to use a 35k cert for a hotel I can purchase for $150-200/night but that’s what these catagory changes do since they’re unrelated to the actual purchase cost of night. There not much encentive in loyalty.
Feb 11, 2019, 7:48 am
#90
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,420
Yeah, I view being able to use a cert as a win, regardless of calculated redemption value.