Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Hotels and Places to Stay > Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy
Reload this Page >

Annual Award Category Changes - Effective March 5, 2019.

Annual Award Category Changes - Effective March 5, 2019.

    Hide Wikipost
Old Mar 5, 19, 12:33 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: swag
Wiki Link
Print Wikipost

Reply

Old Feb 10, 19, 6:45 am
  #76  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Programs: AA Gold, United Silver, SW A-list, Marriott LTT, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 927
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
CY as Cat 6 is ridiculous no matter how you slice it.
But everything about San Francisco is ridiculous. It's $68 + 14% tax just to park a car at some of those hotels.
naumank likes this.

Last edited by ehallison; Feb 10, 19 at 7:08 am
ehallison is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 7:36 am
  #77  
2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,396
Originally Posted by conde View Post
The category changes were predictable. We just didn't know which properties, or the scale of the changes. Very little good from this. It is nice to see the Bristol in Vienna drop to a Cat 5. That was the only hotel dropping a category which interests me.
Others in Europe are also dropping. Some very nice hotels in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland will drop one category and I don't see any increases in those countries, nor in Hungary (I was concerned about the Budapest Marriott, one of my favorite hotels).
Counsellor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 9:39 am
  #78  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
Posts: 210
There are two UK hotels listed that are no longer part of the Marriott family !!
JonP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 1:33 pm
  #79  
2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, LH Silver, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, Hyatt Disc, PC Plat, CC Gold
Posts: 3,682
Originally Posted by Counsellor View Post
Others in Europe are also dropping. Some very nice hotels in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland will drop one category and I don't see any increases in those countries, nor in Hungary (I was concerned about the Budapest Marriott, one of my favorite hotels).
The drops in Vienna are indeed nice but in Germany itís just one hotel in Munich dropping thatís not even in the center of town.
christianj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 3:49 pm
  #80  
Marriott Contributor Badge 2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BTR
Programs: AA PlatPro 2.3MM; Marriott LT Plat; Hilton Gold; Vistana 5-Star Elite; National Car Exec Elite
Posts: 6,047
From reading this thread and others, it appears those of you with a number of years with Marriott should have expected these changes in general.

I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.

It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.

Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
controller1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 4:28 pm
  #81  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 86,995
Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
In the context of ongoing program devaluation as Marriott leverages its market position, yes.
Sure. But at some point Marrirot (sic) may find that the rotting program value customers get out of the program's points makes the customers more likely to shop based on factors that Marriott may not like and which may also cost Marriott some revenue from selling points to loyalty program partners. But much as with the US airline industry's cartel kingpins, a consolidating hotel industry's cartel kingpins may also encourage lemming behavior at home and beyond as long as it seems to provide more immediate returns for the company regardless of the longer-term consequences on the business.
GUWonder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 4:59 pm
  #82  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,778
Originally Posted by controller1 View Post
From reading this thread and others, it appears those of you with a number of years with Marriott should have expected these changes in general.

I see statements such as "[name of hotel] in [Any City, Any Country] is my favorite and it is increasing from a Category [x] to a Category [y]." Well, if it is your favorite hotel then perhaps it is hundreds or thousands of other members favorite hotel also. And since Marriott determines categories based on popularity of use of award reservations at said property, it is somewhat expected.

It was much better on the member with SPG as they based their award categories on a property's ADR. So yes, you might have a Four Points in San Francisco at a higher category than a full service property in the U.S. midwest, it was easier to justify because the regular rates and thus the ADR of the San Francisco property was higher than that midwest property.

Even though I prefer the SPG way of pricing award categories, it is hard to argue with Marriott's way of pricing award categories since it is based on the principal of supply and demand and the higher category properties are demanded more often in the form of award reservations than are the lower category properties.
I thought SPG used something like a property's annual revenue or profitability to determine its category, but I guess it was ADR. Whatever the case, one argument Marriott made for the merger was they needed it help compete with Airbnb and similar. I haven't seen MR do anything to address this.

Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
GUWonder, Happy, dcstudent and 1 others like this.
rrgg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 6:42 pm
  #83  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,872
Originally Posted by ehallison View Post
But everything about San Francisco is ridiculous. It's $68 + 14% tax just to park a car at some of those hotels.
Chicago is the same thing, so as NYC. DC area is not far behind.
Happy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 7:29 pm
  #84  
Marriott Contributor Badge 2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BTR
Programs: AA PlatPro 2.3MM; Marriott LT Plat; Hilton Gold; Vistana 5-Star Elite; National Car Exec Elite
Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by rrgg View Post
Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
Marriott is so large the cards are stacked against the consumer.
dw and Happy like this.
controller1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 19, 9:18 pm
  #85  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SFO
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by rrgg View Post
I thought SPG used something like a property's annual revenue or profitability to determine its category, but I guess it was ADR. Whatever the case, one argument Marriott made for the merger was they needed it help compete with Airbnb and similar. I haven't seen MR do anything to address this.

Ironically, since the merger is making MR less rewarding, they're actually driving loyal customers to try other brands or Airbnb.
I agree, I think itís largely due to arrogance. They have the largest global footprint and theyíre fully leveraging that advantage
BaconSF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 6:16 am
  #86  
2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, LH Silver, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, Hyatt Disc, PC Plat, CC Gold
Posts: 3,682
Originally Posted by BaconSF View Post
They have the largest global footprint and they’re fully leveraging that advantage
True but I think this (and the horrible merger integration) is making a lot of people look elsewhere. In the past I would almost blindly book a SPG hotel but now I'm finding myself looking at all the alternatives. I just stayed at Hilton branded hotel at FRA (when I normally would have booked the Sheraton FRA), I am going to Vegas soon and there I booked the Waldorf Astoria for the first time (instead of staying at the Westin or the Cosmo) and for a trip to Greece this summer I've gone to an Independent Boutique hotel instead of one of the Marriott options. Will I completely abandon Marriott...no but I certainly am not as loyal to them as I was to SPG since loyalty is a two way street. Again YMMV so someone else might think different but this is how this is all playing out for me.

I just do NOT get that warm and fuzzy trusting feeling with Marriott that I had with Starwood and they've given us several reasons recently to feel this way.

I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop on the peak award pricing and then I think there's going to be a lot more people playing the free agent field.

Last edited by christianj; Feb 11, 19 at 6:23 am
christianj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 6:54 am
  #87  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: AA, Delta, Ritz-Carlton, Hilton Honors, IHG
Posts: 54
CC certs

Marriott sets the reward category not in hotel price or quality but redemption demand. They just switch to mostly CC certs of 35k. Thus greater demand on properties in the category. This is a great example designed inflation.

In most cases, even for 5th night free redemptions, remaining loyal to creat MR point for Hotel redemptions wasnít the best usage of MR, now BR, points. Itís easy to 1ccp transfered to airlines. Hotel nights are often around Ĺ ccp.

But the CC donít give point but certs. In a short couple of years 25k certs being useful, thus the cards worth their annual fee. To being difficult to find a place to use them. Now the 35k certs are become just as much deadwood. Hotel earnings alone are no reason to keep the Marriott branded credit cards. Itís just silly to use a 35k cert for a hotel I can purchase for $150-200/night but thatís what these catagory changes do since theyíre unrelated to the actual purchase cost of night. There not much encentive in loyalty.

The price difference between getting a basic room and status upgrade with lounge access and no status but getting a package with breakfast isnít much for leisure travel. Itís not a big step to just ignore the brand an only look at immediate price forgetting the reducing benefits of a loyalty program
Ripley62 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 7:16 am
  #88  
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Englandshire
Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
Posts: 11,330
Of course this has never, ever happened befre, but just in case something gets quietly changed, attached is todays version of the category change pdf for future reference.
Attached Images
Oxon Flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 7:31 am
  #89  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 13,004
Originally Posted by Ripley62 View Post

But the CC donít give point but certs. In a short couple of years 25k certs being useful, thus the cards worth their annual fee. To being difficult to find a place to use them. Now the 35k certs are become just as much deadwood. Hotel earnings alone are no reason to keep the Marriott branded credit cards. Itís just silly to use a 35k cert for a hotel I can purchase for $150-200/night but thatís what these catagory changes do since theyíre unrelated to the actual purchase cost of night. There not much encentive in loyalty.
I'll disagree with this. While you might not want to cash in 35K points when that only saves you 0.5 cents per point, if you're paying $95 annual fee and getting a cert you can use to save $150-200, that's a win.
Counsellor and dw like this.
swag is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 19, 7:48 am
  #90  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; AS MVPG; Marriott Plat Premier; Hilton Diamond (Aspire); Hyatt Refugeeist
Posts: 38,552
Originally Posted by swag View Post
I'll disagree with this. While you might not want to cash in 35K points when that only saves you 0.5 cents per point, if you're paying $95 annual fee and getting a cert you can use to save $150-200, that's a win.
Yeah, I view being able to use a cert as a win, regardless of calculated redemption value.
Kacee is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread