High value SPG members: Marriott screwing us on LTPP because they can't do IT
Dec 4, 2018, 10:56 am
#76
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,458
If you’re a high value SPG member who has 750+ lifetime nights, but not 10 combined years of Platinum status, you’re about to get screwed out of Lifetime Platinum Premier status. And the reason why is that Marriott can’t figure out how to pull the data from SPG’s IT systems.
While Marriott will give Lifetime Platinum Premier status to legacy Marriott members who have achieved 750+ lifetime nights and 2 million points, they are not offering the same opportunity to high value SPG members. This is because, as I just learned after complaining about this, they can’t figure out how to determine the number of points earned for legacy SPG customers.
This is unacceptable. First, it’s IT. Figure it out, guys. I know it’s hard but everyone else has.
Second, consider that SPG’s mix of brands (Westin, W, St. Regis, etc) is higher end than Marriott (lots of select service locations). The odds that a longtime SPG member with 750+ nights clears the 2 million Marriott points requirement (only 666,667 in SPG Starpoints) is very high.
Third, if they still can’t figure out the data, then offer some kind of exception or review process. Everything I’ve heard directly from Marriott or read on FT suggests that Marriott will apply the rules they announced strictly and without exception. That’s just not good enough -- especially given their own failures with data.
Instead, what Marriott has offered as a compromise is a 10-year Platinum status requirement. This may sound reasonable, but it perversely screws over their highest intensity customers. Think about the type of customer likely to have extremely high night counts, but not enough years. It’s likely to be a younger salesperson or consultant, who will be traveling around for years to come. Any marketer worth their salt would take a Customer Lifetime Value lens to the problem.
Here’s an example: who is a more valuable customer?
* A 65-year-old executive with 800 nights and 12 years of status
* A 35-year-old salesman with 950 nights and 8 years of status
So what does Marriott say to the latter customer? Thanks for your business, but you’re a second class citizen. It’s rather obvious that I’m in this second group. I have boatloads of nights and points – well above any requirement Marriott is applying to its legacy customers.
Marriott is about to turn a high value, loyal customer into a Lifetime Enemy. And the worst part is, they don’t care enough to do anything about it.
While Marriott will give Lifetime Platinum Premier status to legacy Marriott members who have achieved 750+ lifetime nights and 2 million points, they are not offering the same opportunity to high value SPG members. This is because, as I just learned after complaining about this, they can’t figure out how to determine the number of points earned for legacy SPG customers.
This is unacceptable. First, it’s IT. Figure it out, guys. I know it’s hard but everyone else has.
Second, consider that SPG’s mix of brands (Westin, W, St. Regis, etc) is higher end than Marriott (lots of select service locations). The odds that a longtime SPG member with 750+ nights clears the 2 million Marriott points requirement (only 666,667 in SPG Starpoints) is very high.
Third, if they still can’t figure out the data, then offer some kind of exception or review process. Everything I’ve heard directly from Marriott or read on FT suggests that Marriott will apply the rules they announced strictly and without exception. That’s just not good enough -- especially given their own failures with data.
Instead, what Marriott has offered as a compromise is a 10-year Platinum status requirement. This may sound reasonable, but it perversely screws over their highest intensity customers. Think about the type of customer likely to have extremely high night counts, but not enough years. It’s likely to be a younger salesperson or consultant, who will be traveling around for years to come. Any marketer worth their salt would take a Customer Lifetime Value lens to the problem.
Here’s an example: who is a more valuable customer?
* A 65-year-old executive with 800 nights and 12 years of status
* A 35-year-old salesman with 950 nights and 8 years of status
So what does Marriott say to the latter customer? Thanks for your business, but you’re a second class citizen. It’s rather obvious that I’m in this second group. I have boatloads of nights and points – well above any requirement Marriott is applying to its legacy customers.
Marriott is about to turn a high value, loyal customer into a Lifetime Enemy. And the worst part is, they don’t care enough to do anything about it.
The 65 year old may very easily be the more valuable customer Since you made him an executive he could be driving the travel policy for the entire company. He could be spending 50 nights a year at high priced luxury hotels. He could be paying (GASP, what a concept on here) for a suite every time he travels.
The 35 year old may be staying at the Four Points in the Knoxville TN where the rate I just got was $88 a night.
SO the point is your assumption that you are "high value" is relative and may not be true to Marriott...
What's obvious is that you are pitching a fit because you want something you aren't entitled too... So I assume you will move along leaving more upgrades for the rest of us!
Dec 4, 2018, 5:34 pm
#77
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / hyatt globalist / AA CK baby!
Posts: 870
This year, I could have qualified for LTPP like the op, if marriot used the same rules for spg members as they allowed their own members to qualify for LTPP.
Barring any further changes in the rules, I will never qualify for LTPP.
I WILL qualify for LTP in the not too distant future, with far more nights than I would need (and total spend if we were going by the old marriot rules) - at that point in time I would probably shift stays away from marriot assuming again no change in their policy about LTPP qualification. The idea what I have had more loyalty to a program than some customers who were granted better perks than I could earn really rubs me the wrong way, so it would encourage me to look elsewhere once I have the highest status I could get locked in. I was the sort of SPG customer who would plan vacations based upon starwood's footprint, and when on the road would detour 100 miles out of the way to stay at a starwood property. I was VERY loyal, but the issue over LTPP seems like a big "F-you" to me.
Dec 4, 2018, 5:44 pm
#78
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / hyatt globalist / AA CK baby!
Posts: 870
Even if you had 750 nights and 2MM unconverted MR only points, unless those 750 nights were solely MR nights, it isn't definite that you would become LTPP. After the option to combine nights and years of status for LTPP was added in May, I requested that combined nights and uncombined MR points be allowed as well. I believe it was on June 20, that Lurker William acknowledged that 750 MR+SPG nights and 2MM MR points qualify. Many on FT have objected to allowing this and several have disputed that Williams words mean what he says they do. Not that long ago, one blogger told me that management has said that combined nights won't count unless accompanied by 10 years of status.
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Dec 4, 2018, 6:17 pm
#79
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
At least this was true before the merger, but of course Lurker Wliiam knows more about the program rules than everyone else combined.
Dec 4, 2018, 6:26 pm
#80
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
I was part of an internal group advocated against adding the Lifetime option. I see it like government entitlements or corporate generous pensions that pull resources that can enhance the program of today and give benefits to those who contributed in the past for their award of loyalty and are generating less revenue as they enter retirement age (the lifetime status suppose to be a marathon and not a mad dash). I feared in the long run, us Millennial are going to get screwed when the system becomes unsustainable and benefits had to be cut because of too many life-timers in retirement that won't be generating enough revenue like they use to. My side lost the argument so we got the next best thing... Some resources was spent on a Lifetime status that is offers more of a symbolic meaning (and less about hard benefits) . So you have this metal Lifetime status card that you can proudly show when you dine and get points and you get a world map with dots on location of all the stays you ever had. Some hotels will do something special on the night you pass the lifetime status threshold and some Platinum Concierge staff will send you a mystery gift.
The remaining resources was to enhance benefits like Your24, the ambassador program and my not-so-original-copy-from-Airlines idea - System Wide Upgrade Certs (now known as Suite Night Awards). So Platinum level was split into Plat Lite (same level as Lifetime Plat), Plat 50 (Suite Night Awards), Plat 75 (Your24 + extra points) and Plat 100 (with Ambassador).
To be honest, I was slightly cynical at first thinking those lifetime members will see through the gimmick when they get the metal card and unlikely to move them. That was until I got mine two years back and it was quite something emotional getting a metal card and the world map with dots. You briefly reminded of all the great times (or the great terrible times) you have with Starwood. It keeps reminding me when I held that metal card. As the mystery gift for crossing the lifetime status, I think when hotel did the celebration with the Lifer, it was more memorable and pack a stronger emotional punch. There was reports on Flyertalkers getting different recognition at hotels on the old SPG threads (inversely there are those that didn't get any recognition at all so it's a hit and miss). I myself got a mystery gift of a Westin bath robe with my name sewed on it and it's still in original packaging.
Dec 4, 2018, 6:43 pm
#81
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Sorry, no. that was just sloppy typing on my part.
This year, I could have qualified for LTPP like the op, if marriot used the same rules for spg members as they allowed their own members to qualify for LTPP.
Barring any further changes in the rules, I will never qualify for LTPP.
I WILL qualify for LTP in the not too distant future, with far more nights than I would need (and total spend if we were going by the old marriot rules) - at that point in time I would probably shift stays away from marriot assuming again no change in their policy about LTPP qualification. The idea what I have had more loyalty to a program than some customers who were granted better perks than I could earn really rubs me the wrong way, so it would encourage me to look elsewhere once I have the highest status I could get locked in. I was the sort of SPG customer who would plan vacations based upon starwood's footprint, and when on the road would detour 100 miles out of the way to stay at a starwood property. I was VERY loyal, but the issue over LTPP seems like a big "F-you" to me.
This year, I could have qualified for LTPP like the op, if marriot used the same rules for spg members as they allowed their own members to qualify for LTPP.
Barring any further changes in the rules, I will never qualify for LTPP.
I WILL qualify for LTP in the not too distant future, with far more nights than I would need (and total spend if we were going by the old marriot rules) - at that point in time I would probably shift stays away from marriot assuming again no change in their policy about LTPP qualification. The idea what I have had more loyalty to a program than some customers who were granted better perks than I could earn really rubs me the wrong way, so it would encourage me to look elsewhere once I have the highest status I could get locked in. I was the sort of SPG customer who would plan vacations based upon starwood's footprint, and when on the road would detour 100 miles out of the way to stay at a starwood property. I was VERY loyal, but the issue over LTPP seems like a big "F-you" to me.
The inequality may show, if ever, is at retirement decades in the future. Who knows if Marriott would be then? Maybe they merge or breakup or crash out? Programs evolves. So we just use the benefits we have today to full-fill the the needs we have today.
Dec 4, 2018, 7:26 pm
#82
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,963
I'm still waiting for someone in this thread to tell me what's so special about LTPP that's worth all the angst about not getting it; I've been one for nearly 4 months and nothing feels any different from 8/17 in neither SPG nor MR (well, OK- I do appreciate the 25% extra points).
Dec 4, 2018, 7:44 pm
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,166
I'm still waiting for someone in this thread to tell me what's so special about LTPP that's worth all the angst about not getting it; I've been one for nearly 4 months and nothing feels any different from 8/17 in neither SPG nor MR (well, OK- I do appreciate the 25% extra points).
Dec 4, 2018, 7:48 pm
#84
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,963
"Theory" is right. If I check in after about 8pm- even for a room I've booked weeks back- this LTPP is getting a room next to the HVAC with a view of the alley. Funny thing is, if I ask them- sometimes twice- to "see if there's something better", many times there is.
Dec 4, 2018, 9:03 pm
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Dia Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,510
"Theory" is right. If I check in after about 8pm- even for a room I've booked weeks back- this LTPP is getting a room next to the HVAC with a view of the alley. Funny thing is, if I ask them- sometimes twice- to "see if there's something better", many times there is.
Dec 4, 2018, 9:27 pm
#86
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London, Vancouver, Tokyo, San Francisco, NYC
Posts: 265
I'm still waiting for someone in this thread to tell me what's so special about LTPP that's worth all the angst about not getting it; I've been one for nearly 4 months and nothing feels any different from 8/17 in neither SPG nor MR (well, OK- I do appreciate the 25% extra points).
Dec 5, 2018, 2:52 am
#87
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 902
100% agree! Upgrades has more to do with what time you check in, how long you are staying and whether you are a regular guest, than what kind of Plat you are! I think it’s funny how people are getting their panties in a knot over some perceived benefits that really don’t add up to much. And it makes zero sense for Marriott to enhance these benefits in the future, as they certainly won’t be an incentive for people to strive for the LTPP level.
Dec 5, 2018, 3:05 am
#88
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 902
I suspect that with time, hotels that usually go above and beyond in treating plat guests (think Asian properties) will start restricting those amenities to PP guests only, especially if the tier gets renamed as a different, more distinguishable metal or allotrope.
Dec 5, 2018, 8:07 am
#89
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
Back to my basic point. If MR only points and combined nights weren't intended to qualify, there is no chance that combined points and combined nights will.
Last edited by rny321; Dec 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm
Dec 5, 2018, 8:29 am
#90
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
100% agree! Upgrades has more to do with what time you check in, how long you are staying and whether you are a regular guest, than what kind of Plat you are! I think it’s funny how people are getting their panties in a knot over some perceived benefits that really don’t add up to much. And it makes zero sense for Marriott to enhance these benefits in the future, as they certainly won’t be an incentive for people to strive for the LTPP level.
Last edited by rny321; Dec 5, 2018 at 10:46 am