Marriott Bonvoy? (Potential new program leak)
#331
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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I love how no matter what anyone ever says they're wrong and you're right. Numerous people have pointed out that otherwise generic and ho-hum brands have some properties in some markets that are rated by a rating scheme as 5-star. Whether you accept their rating or not is your prerogative, but most of these rating schemes are quite specific in what they require for a property to receive a rating of 4 stars or 5 stars.
Here's how it played out in France:
Meanwhile, British ratings puts an emphasis on service. See this:
Of course, many hotels, whether they are rated or not, fail to adequately deliver the services and amenities they advertise.
Here's how it played out in France:
Meanwhile, British ratings puts an emphasis on service. See this:
Of course, many hotels, whether they are rated or not, fail to adequately deliver the services and amenities they advertise.
#332
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Being recognized as 5* is not the definition of 5* as you claim above; thats a circular non sequitur definition, Im afraid. Almost all 5 star hotels offer luxury decor and design, high levels of food/beverage, a full operating spa by many definitions, the best in category of facilities...and individualized and personalized levels of service. Most of the hotels you and others claim to be 5* dont even come close in terms of indvidualized and personalized service. It isnt even close.
Service tends to be where the brand new and shiny/beautiful hotels are differentiated.
Yet ... individualized and personalized levels of service is highly subjective as is the term "luxury." I'll leave that definition to debate in the Luxury Hotels forum.
But ... from my personal experience, I don't find service to be materially different at a Luxury Collection vs a Marriott/Ren/JW/W/Westin. The LC/JW/W/Edition, have (a) a doorman, (b) turndown service, (c) a concierge, (d) 24 hour room service, and (e) better furnishings and toiletries I think those are the general brand standards that distinguish them from the Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties but perhaps others can think of some objective differences.
I don't, however find the LC/JW/W/Edition to have more individualized or personalized service, whatever that may be. All of them are nice to me when I check in and before 8/18, I would sometimes receive nice notes and unexpected gifts at legacy MR properties.
Those doorman/turndown etc. standards required at US LC/JW/W/Edition are often seen in Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties outside the US. In fact, it might be the norm outside the US.
For example, I had a nice stay recently at the Sydney Marriott, it had all of the standards applicable to LC/JW/W/Edition and, to the extent this counts individualized service, the GM sent some wine and chocolate with a note, and also gave me a call to check in.
As for French 5 star standards, I saw this description ...
Five-Star Hotels: This is the top end of the rating system (apart from the super Palace Hotels). Guest rooms must be at least 24 square meters (258 square feet or 15 feet by 17 feet). Staff must be able to speak two foreign languages including English. Five-star hotels are also required to provide air conditioning, valet parking, room service, a concierge, and an escort to the room at the time of check-in.
Palace Hotels: The Palace designation is only awarded to five-star hotels of exceptional quality. These hotels are the "crme de la crme" and provide every creature comfort you could desire in addition to a unique ambiance. Palace hotels might include extra luxuries such as top-ranked restaurants or spa services. There are currently 24 Palace hotels in France. Many are in Paris, but some are outside in the chicest destinations. In Biarritz, you get the Htel du Palais; in the top skiing resort of Courchevel, there are many top hotels, including three in the Palace category: Htel Les Airelles, Htel Le Cheval Blanc, and Htel Le K2. Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat on the French Riviera has the Le Grand-Htel du Cap-Ferrat, now managed by Four Seasons; L'htel La Rserve is at Ramatuelle and, finally, St.Tropezhas two: L'htel Le Byblos and Le Ch teau de la Messardire.
#333
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,232
Start Date ???
Does Bonvoy , or whatever name is chosen , start on January 1,2019 or is it at some unannounced 2019 date ????
#334
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,597
no more factually invalid as your statements not accepting the fact that there are many 5 star sheratons & westins in asia when the properties & spg/marriott themselves classify them as 5 star properties....
Last edited by Keyser; Dec 7, 2018 at 9:30 pm
#335
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 29,597
this pretty much sums up this current discussion....no point taking it any further because some people refuse to accept anything other than what they (in this instance incorrectly) believe....also, this thread is not about what constitutes a 5 star property so lets get back to the topic this thread is intended for....
#336
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Yet ... individualized and personalized levels of service is highly subjective as is the term "luxury." I'll leave that definition to debate in the Luxury Hotels forum.
But ... from my personal experience, I don't find service to be materially different at a Luxury Collection vs a Marriott/Ren/JW/W/Westin. The LC/JW/W/Edition, have (a) a doorman, (b) turndown service, (c) a concierge, (d) 24 hour room service, and (e) better furnishings and toiletries I think those are the general brand standards that distinguish them from the Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties but perhaps others can think of some objective differences.
I don't, however find the LC/JW/W/Edition to have more individualized or personalized service, whatever that may be. All of them are nice to me when I check in and before 8/18, I would sometimes receive nice notes and unexpected gifts at legacy MR properties.
Those doorman/turndown etc. standards required at US LC/JW/W/Edition are often seen in Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties outside the US. In fact, it might be the norm outside the US.
For example, I had a nice stay recently at the Sydney Marriott, it had all of the standards applicable to LC/JW/W/Edition and, to the extent this counts individualized service, the GM sent some wine and chocolate with a note, and also gave me a call to check in.
As for French 5 star standards, I saw this description ...
Five-Star Hotels: This is the top end of the rating system (apart from the super Palace Hotels). Guest rooms must be at least 24 square meters (258 square feet or 15 feet by 17 feet). Staff must be able to speak two foreign languages including English. Five-star hotels are also required to provide air conditioning, valet parking, room service, a concierge, and an escort to the room at the time of check-in.
Palace Hotels: The Palace designation is only awarded to five-star hotels of exceptional quality. These hotels are the "crme de la crme" and provide every creature comfort you could desire in addition to a unique ambiance. Palace hotels might include extra luxuries such as top-ranked restaurants or spa services. There are currently 24 Palace hotels in France. Many are in Paris, but some are outside in the chicest destinations. In Biarritz, you get the Htel du Palais; in the top skiing resort of Courchevel, there are many top hotels, including three in the Palace category: Htel Les Airelles, Htel Le Cheval Blanc, and Htel Le K2. Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat on the French Riviera has the Le Grand-Htel du Cap-Ferrat, now managed by Four Seasons; L'htel La Rserve is at Ramatuelle and, finally, St.Tropezhas two: L'htel Le Byblos and Le Ch teau de la Messardire.
But ... from my personal experience, I don't find service to be materially different at a Luxury Collection vs a Marriott/Ren/JW/W/Westin. The LC/JW/W/Edition, have (a) a doorman, (b) turndown service, (c) a concierge, (d) 24 hour room service, and (e) better furnishings and toiletries I think those are the general brand standards that distinguish them from the Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties but perhaps others can think of some objective differences.
I don't, however find the LC/JW/W/Edition to have more individualized or personalized service, whatever that may be. All of them are nice to me when I check in and before 8/18, I would sometimes receive nice notes and unexpected gifts at legacy MR properties.
Those doorman/turndown etc. standards required at US LC/JW/W/Edition are often seen in Marriott/Renn/Westin/Sheraton/Autograph properties outside the US. In fact, it might be the norm outside the US.
For example, I had a nice stay recently at the Sydney Marriott, it had all of the standards applicable to LC/JW/W/Edition and, to the extent this counts individualized service, the GM sent some wine and chocolate with a note, and also gave me a call to check in.
As for French 5 star standards, I saw this description ...
Five-Star Hotels: This is the top end of the rating system (apart from the super Palace Hotels). Guest rooms must be at least 24 square meters (258 square feet or 15 feet by 17 feet). Staff must be able to speak two foreign languages including English. Five-star hotels are also required to provide air conditioning, valet parking, room service, a concierge, and an escort to the room at the time of check-in.
Palace Hotels: The Palace designation is only awarded to five-star hotels of exceptional quality. These hotels are the "crme de la crme" and provide every creature comfort you could desire in addition to a unique ambiance. Palace hotels might include extra luxuries such as top-ranked restaurants or spa services. There are currently 24 Palace hotels in France. Many are in Paris, but some are outside in the chicest destinations. In Biarritz, you get the Htel du Palais; in the top skiing resort of Courchevel, there are many top hotels, including three in the Palace category: Htel Les Airelles, Htel Le Cheval Blanc, and Htel Le K2. Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat on the French Riviera has the Le Grand-Htel du Cap-Ferrat, now managed by Four Seasons; L'htel La Rserve is at Ramatuelle and, finally, St.Tropezhas two: L'htel Le Byblos and Le Ch teau de la Messardire.
Ill be the first to admit the Luxury Collection has both 4* and 5* properties. But even most of the 4* properties offer better service on average than that if most Sheraton, Westin, Le Meridien, Marriott, Renaissance. Tribute and Autograph are usually both 3* and 4*. Design hotels usually are 3* and 4* with perhaps a few 5*.
At rhe obvious 5* Luxury Collection hotels, service is blatantly and materially better than that at any of the aforementioned brands. These include but perhaps arent limited to the Gritti and Danieli Venice, the Imperial Vienna, the Excellsior Gallia Milan, Suiran Kyoto, the Prince Gallery Tokyo, the Prince de Galles Paris, Schloss Fushcl Salzburg, the Augustine Prague, the Grand Bretagne Athens, Mystique and Vdema Santorini, Al Maha Dubai, Caresse Bodrum, SLS Beverly Hills, Las Alcobas Napa, Canyon Suites at the Phoenician Scottsdale, the Chatwal NYC, Palacio del Inka and Tambo del Inka Peru, etc. The majority of others may be 4*. Those 5* properties offer service as good as or even better than the average St Regis, in fact.
I think Ive got a pretty good handle on 5* luxury, since I stay at those types of properties more of the time and far more often than most in this forum. I do think that gives me a much better perspective than most.
#337
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,286
From a marketing perspective, January 1 is a weak date to launch a new program, campaign or brand.
#339
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
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Unless it's undergone a major (and I do mean MAJOR) renovation since I was last there in September, 2016, this is barely a four star property, a shadow of what it once was, say in the 1960s and 1970s. And I'm not just talking about some worn carpet which needs replacing; I'm talking about everything, right down to the amount of dirt in the corners of hallways. Led me to wonder if the hotel even owns any vacuum cleaners, let alone mops, buckets and scrub brushes.
#340
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I agree. What's amazing is if Marriot is launching Bonvoy you would think they would announce it by now. Yes, the changes appear to be mostly housekeeping and no substantive changes to program terms or elite status qualifying requirements, but still. Give your customers a few weeks' notice.
#341
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Unless it's undergone a major (and I do mean MAJOR) renovation since I was last there in September, 2016, this is barely a four star property, a shadow of what it once was, say in the 1960s and 1970s. And I'm not just talking about some worn carpet which needs replacing; I'm talking about everything, right down to the amount of dirt in the corners of hallways. Led me to wonder if the hotel even owns any vacuum cleaners, let alone mops, buckets and scrub brushes.
#342
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
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Posts: 5,234
Are luxury hotels for everyone?
As for the new name and potentially new status levels, it all seems to have gone silent with the data breach.
#343
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Wouldn't standard basic marketing wisdom suggest not introducing a new brand at the time that it's getting lots of negative publicity?
#344
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
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Folks, just a reminder that the topic of this thread is the (leaked) name and features of the new program. Please stay on topic.
It’s not really the place for [the same group of] posters to reheat [the same set of] arguments that have been played out repeatedly in many other threads. It’s not particularly enlightening reading anymore.
It’s not really the place for [the same group of] posters to reheat [the same set of] arguments that have been played out repeatedly in many other threads. It’s not particularly enlightening reading anymore.
#345
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On the other hand, Marriott may feel that the bad publicity resulting from the 8/18 integration of three distinct loyalty programs into one, unified loyalty program requires a completely rebranding of the program as soon as possible.