Peak and off peak Awards (General Discussion)
#121
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
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we all knew this was coming....i had hoped marriott would disclose peak & non-peak months but they are going with high & low demand instead....it sucks but like i said, we knew this was coming....
#122
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,518
I saw this in the link in my email. Perhaps it only applies to Canadian AMEX and perhaps it is not new, but anyway:
After your Card account anniversary, your Free Night Award will arrive as an e-certificate that can be viewed on the Activity page within your member account. Free Night Award e-certificates can be used instead of points to reserve a room. Plus, you can use points to add more nights to your award stay when making a reservation.
After your Card account anniversary, your Free Night Award will arrive as an e-certificate that can be viewed on the Activity page within your member account. Free Night Award e-certificates can be used instead of points to reserve a room. Plus, you can use points to add more nights to your award stay when making a reservation.
#123
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
This has been a tough year for points devaluation for sure. Between trashing travel packages, category addition, category creep and now this? Ouch.
I was already headed toward free agency when I hit lifetime Ti last year and this makes it that much easier. Mrs. 1120 and I just returned from a couple weeks in Europe. Up til Bonvoy, we would have stayed primarily at Marriott properties. This time? €0
It’s not all bad - we’ve expanded both work and vacation lodging choices and it’s been great.
The grass really is greener when you get away from Bonvoy.
I was already headed toward free agency when I hit lifetime Ti last year and this makes it that much easier. Mrs. 1120 and I just returned from a couple weeks in Europe. Up til Bonvoy, we would have stayed primarily at Marriott properties. This time? €0
It’s not all bad - we’ve expanded both work and vacation lodging choices and it’s been great.
The grass really is greener when you get away from Bonvoy.
#124
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 417
I can see hotels messing with the system and adding "PEEK" every weekend to stop the 5th night free. People don't realize the level of devaluation. It's going to be BAD.
#125
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 495
My apologies for reading too quickly and optimistically. For a moment I thought we had that as a result Sigh.
#126
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,570
I think of most hotels in most parts of the world as having very few truly peak dates. In many places, the markedly non-peak date range is much longer than the peak date range. In others, there are a few short peaks through the year and then a lot of standard dates.
But since an algorithm is supposedly going to drive it, it's all going to depend on the variables in that algorithm, which I'm sure Marriott will set up so they can customize at will.
My biggest problem is that I've long considered the value of hotel loyalty programs as redeeming awards for peak dates. At non-peak times, there's often no need for an award. So I have a feeling that my own computations of value were already baking in what Marriott would consider the peak rate, meaning this is going to feel like a big devaluation to me.
I know there's still value out there if I can find Category 1 off-peak dates, but that's never been how I like to use the points. I think most of us here like using them at the more aspirational hotels at somewhat peak times.
#127
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
That will definitely be the case. They said "peak and off-peak will be spread evenly throughout the portfolio." So the TownPlace in Dubuque, IA I am staying in next week will get plenty of off peak time, nearly year-round. Then to compensate, The Laylow in Honolulu will get nearly year-round peak time. Obviously, that is only fair.
Edit: Also might see some two-stepping where those properties are bumped a level and THEN made perma-off peak
#128
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
I do my best to say it like it is.
For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.
For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.
For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
#130
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
Pretty much point value devaluation although Marriott package them differently.
However I more interested on how Marriott implement this "balanced" peak and off peak rate.
Equal number of days for peak and off peak rate ? For each peak days, hotel must set 1 off peak day to balance?
What prevent a property set their rate as peak for the whole time?
How about resort that relies on season ... like ski resort.
However I more interested on how Marriott implement this "balanced" peak and off peak rate.
Equal number of days for peak and off peak rate ? For each peak days, hotel must set 1 off peak day to balance?
What prevent a property set their rate as peak for the whole time?
How about resort that relies on season ... like ski resort.
#131
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
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Marriott has largely mirrored the best of SPG with Bonvoy. All the panic from SPG elites worried that Marriott would destroy SPG was absolutely unnecessary and misplaced.
Let’s not forget that SPG had peak pricing. Marriott’s peak pricing is still lower relative to that of SPG. That fear was misplaced.
Lets not forget that SPG never had points advance. So Marriott lent one of its most popular features for a while despite it never having been part of the better SPG program. Devaluing it now to avoid the rampant speculation it causes still leaves it better than nothing.
Let’s remember when everyone decried how Marriott would end suite upgrades as was done with SPG. Sorry, but elites now have the possibility of suite upgrades at far more properties and even brands that never had them before like RC and Edition, let alone all the Marriott brands that didn’t remotely routinely give them. Now they do. My suite upgrades have been vastly better with Bonvoy. Those fears and the panic was misplaced.
Let’s remember when everyone was worried about how Marriott would equilibrate the SPG points. They gave us 3 Marriott points per SPG point. That fear was badly misplaced.
Lets remember when everyone speculated and took advantage of the reduced points cost for all the top most aspirational properties in the world. No one complained then about the change that precluded the introduction of Cat 8 for 2 years. How many of us used our points and the new points advance to get awards to properties that were unattainable for most up to that point? How many of us managed to get award stays for ridiculous savings in points from what we were used to or couldn’t even hope to get with SPG? So much for those fears being misplaced.
Yes, most of the misplaced fears have been about needless panic that ended up in most of the best SPG and Marriott Bonvoy customers getting way more than we ever imagined. So a lot of massively misplaced fears, indeed.
Last edited by bhrubin; Aug 16, 2019 at 10:27 am
#132
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
With this pattern, the free night will be 1 off peak night and hotel earn 2 peak, 1 standard, and 1 off peak
#133
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BNA
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, Bonvoy Plat, HHonors Diamond, DL Gold
Posts: 383
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.[/LEFT]
For points primarily earned through stays, Bonvoy award point structures might be better than SPG. However, for people who earn most or all of their points through credit card spend, it takes considerably more credit card spend to earn points for Bonvoy Cat 6,7, and 8 awards than it did for SPG at the same properties.
For argument sake, the following general levels might be most common:
Bonvoy Cat 6= SPG Cat 5
Bonvoy Cat 7= SPG Cat 6
Bonvoy Cat 8= SPG Cat 7
Bonvoy isn't all about elite recognition. It is also about point earning and redemption.
For Stays, Bonvoy might be an improvement.
For Credit Card spend, Bonvoy earning and redemption is a big devaluation from SPG.
#134
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
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I don't agree with the assessment that Cat 6,7, and 8 awards at peak award point pricing cost less for respective hotels at previous SPG awards. Certainly not for all Bonvoy members.
For points primarily earned through stays, Bonvoy award point structures might be better than SPG. However, for people who earn most or all of their points through credit card spend, it takes considerably more credit card spend to earn points for Bonvoy Cat 6,7, and 8 awards than it did for SPG at the same properties.
For argument sake, the following general levels might be most common:
Bonvoy Cat 6= SPG Cat 5
Bonvoy Cat 7= SPG Cat 6
Bonvoy Cat 8= SPG Cat 7
Bonvoy isn't all about elite recognition. It is also about point earning and redemption.
For Stays, Bonvoy might be an improvement.
For Credit Card spend, Bonvoy earning and redemption is a big devaluation from SPG.
For points primarily earned through stays, Bonvoy award point structures might be better than SPG. However, for people who earn most or all of their points through credit card spend, it takes considerably more credit card spend to earn points for Bonvoy Cat 6,7, and 8 awards than it did for SPG at the same properties.
For argument sake, the following general levels might be most common:
Bonvoy Cat 6= SPG Cat 5
Bonvoy Cat 7= SPG Cat 6
Bonvoy Cat 8= SPG Cat 7
Bonvoy isn't all about elite recognition. It is also about point earning and redemption.
For Stays, Bonvoy might be an improvement.
For Credit Card spend, Bonvoy earning and redemption is a big devaluation from SPG.
You help make my point for me.
For the best Marriott customers, Bonvoy is vastly better than even illustrious SPG. This is whom Marriott wants to please, as it should.
For those speculating using only credit card spend, Bonvoy is worse--as it should be. All Bonvoy elites are glad for this.
We are pleased to see Marriott send the credit card speculators back to Hilton or Hyatt or wherever they prefer.
#135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,673
I do my best to say it like it is.
For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.
For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.
For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
the hard reality is that you need to compare the situation with what exists now, not what existed in a now defunct program....
the hard reality is that a hotel that costs 35k points now will cost 40k points on many dates after september 14th....50k will now be 60k, 60k will be 70k & so on....
the hard reality is that those same hotels will be 30k & 40k & 50k on dates where the rates will be low & not feasible for points redemption....
the hard reality is that this is a devaluation, no matter how much you would like to convince everyone that its not....
its not the end of the world & by far not the worst thing marriott has done....but its a devaluation, no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it....