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Peak and off peak Awards (General Discussion)

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Old Aug 16, 2019, 8:19 am
  #121  
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we all knew this was coming....i had hoped marriott would disclose peak & non-peak months but they are going with high & low demand instead....it sucks but like i said, we knew this was coming....
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 8:34 am
  #122  
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Originally Posted by MaxFlying
I saw this in the link in my email. Perhaps it only applies to Canadian AMEX and perhaps it is not new, but anyway:

After your Card account anniversary, your Free Night Award will arrive as an e-certificate that can be viewed on the Activity page within your member account. Free Night Award e-certificates can be used instead of points to reserve a room. Plus, you can use points to add more nights to your award stay when making a reservation.
Add nights, not add category. So you can do a 3 night stay with 1 night using the cert and 2 using points. What people here are wishing for (fruitlessly) is the ability to combine a 35K cert and 5K points to cover a single 40K peak cat5 night.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 8:35 am
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by 1120
This has been a tough year for points devaluation for sure. Between trashing travel packages, category addition, category creep and now this? Ouch.

I was already headed toward free agency when I hit lifetime Ti last year and this makes it that much easier. Mrs. 1120 and I just returned from a couple weeks in Europe. Up til Bonvoy, we would have stayed primarily at Marriott properties. This time? €0

It’s not all bad - we’ve expanded both work and vacation lodging choices and it’s been great.

The grass really is greener when you get away from Bonvoy.
+1 ! I was in burn points mode after getting LT status at the end of 2019 as well and now I'm in set the points on fire mode! Have had some really great stays at other chains and independent properties since free agenting it and the continued negative news coming out of Marriott confirms that I am on the right path. Still get upset with changes because I am heavily vested with a ton of points but definitely not accumulating them with any passion due to all this.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 9:02 am
  #124  
 
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I can see hotels messing with the system and adding "PEEK" every weekend to stop the 5th night free. People don't realize the level of devaluation. It's going to be BAD.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 9:17 am
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by swag
Add nights, not add category. So you can do a 3 night stay with 1 night using the cert and 2 using points. What people here are wishing for (fruitlessly) is the ability to combine a 35K cert and 5K points to cover a single 40K peak cat5 night.
My apologies for reading too quickly and optimistically. For a moment I thought we had that as a result Sigh.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:00 am
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Keyser
we all knew this was coming....i had hoped marriott would disclose peak & non-peak months but they are going with high & low demand instead....it sucks but like i said, we knew this was coming....
The devil is going to be in the details.

I think of most hotels in most parts of the world as having very few truly peak dates. In many places, the markedly non-peak date range is much longer than the peak date range. In others, there are a few short peaks through the year and then a lot of standard dates.

But since an algorithm is supposedly going to drive it, it's all going to depend on the variables in that algorithm, which I'm sure Marriott will set up so they can customize at will.

My biggest problem is that I've long considered the value of hotel loyalty programs as redeeming awards for peak dates. At non-peak times, there's often no need for an award. So I have a feeling that my own computations of value were already baking in what Marriott would consider the peak rate, meaning this is going to feel like a big devaluation to me.

I know there's still value out there if I can find Category 1 off-peak dates, but that's never been how I like to use the points. I think most of us here like using them at the more aspirational hotels at somewhat peak times.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:03 am
  #127  
 
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Originally Posted by shimps1
That will definitely be the case. They said "peak and off-peak will be spread evenly throughout the portfolio." So the TownPlace in Dubuque, IA I am staying in next week will get plenty of off peak time, nearly year-round. Then to compensate, The Laylow in Honolulu will get nearly year-round peak time. Obviously, that is only fair.
You're being wildly optimistic! Dubuque Town Place will be "standard." Off-peak will be Jixian Marriott which has a cash rate of $75.

Edit: Also might see some two-stepping where those properties are bumped a level and THEN made perma-off peak
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:06 am
  #128  
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Originally Posted by 1120
@bh

You, of all people, referring to “#dramaqueens.”

Remarkable.
I do my best to say it like it is.

For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.

For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.

Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:08 am
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.
Given the behavior of Marriott the last 18 months this faith seems misplaced.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:19 am
  #130  
 
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Pretty much point value devaluation although Marriott package them differently.

However I more interested on how Marriott implement this "balanced" peak and off peak rate.
Equal number of days for peak and off peak rate ? For each peak days, hotel must set 1 off peak day to balance?
What prevent a property set their rate as peak for the whole time?

How about resort that relies on season ... like ski resort.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:19 am
  #131  
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Originally Posted by OssianBlue
Given the behavior of Marriott the last 18 months this faith seems misplaced.
Let’s see what people are forgetting when they claim it’s hard to have faith in Marriott:

Marriott has largely mirrored the best of SPG with Bonvoy. All the panic from SPG elites worried that Marriott would destroy SPG was absolutely unnecessary and misplaced.

Let’s not forget that SPG had peak pricing. Marriott’s peak pricing is still lower relative to that of SPG. That fear was misplaced.

Lets not forget that SPG never had points advance. So Marriott lent one of its most popular features for a while despite it never having been part of the better SPG program. Devaluing it now to avoid the rampant speculation it causes still leaves it better than nothing.

Let’s remember when everyone decried how Marriott would end suite upgrades as was done with SPG. Sorry, but elites now have the possibility of suite upgrades at far more properties and even brands that never had them before like RC and Edition, let alone all the Marriott brands that didn’t remotely routinely give them. Now they do. My suite upgrades have been vastly better with Bonvoy. Those fears and the panic was misplaced.

Let’s remember when everyone was worried about how Marriott would equilibrate the SPG points. They gave us 3 Marriott points per SPG point. That fear was badly misplaced.

Lets remember when everyone speculated and took advantage of the reduced points cost for all the top most aspirational properties in the world. No one complained then about the change that precluded the introduction of Cat 8 for 2 years. How many of us used our points and the new points advance to get awards to properties that were unattainable for most up to that point? How many of us managed to get award stays for ridiculous savings in points from what we were used to or couldn’t even hope to get with SPG? So much for those fears being misplaced.

Yes, most of the misplaced fears have been about needless panic that ended up in most of the best SPG and Marriott Bonvoy customers getting way more than we ever imagined. So a lot of massively misplaced fears, indeed.
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Last edited by bhrubin; Aug 16, 2019 at 10:27 am
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 10:26 am
  #132  
 
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Originally Posted by tilhas
I can see hotels messing with the system and adding "PEEK" every weekend to stop the 5th night free. People don't realize the level of devaluation. It's going to be BAD.
For a hotel to maximise the 5th night earning rate, hotel need to arrange their peak/off peak as : 1 standard days, 2 peak days, and followed by 2 off peak days.

With this pattern, the free night will be 1 off peak night and hotel earn 2 peak, 1 standard, and 1 off peak
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 11:09 am
  #133  
 
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.[/LEFT]
I don't agree with the assessment that Cat 6,7, and 8 awards at peak award point pricing cost less for respective hotels at previous SPG awards. Certainly not for all Bonvoy members.

For points primarily earned through stays, Bonvoy award point structures might be better than SPG. However, for people who earn most or all of their points through credit card spend, it takes considerably more credit card spend to earn points for Bonvoy Cat 6,7, and 8 awards than it did for SPG at the same properties.

For argument sake, the following general levels might be most common:
Bonvoy Cat 6= SPG Cat 5
Bonvoy Cat 7= SPG Cat 6
Bonvoy Cat 8= SPG Cat 7

Bonvoy isn't all about elite recognition. It is also about point earning and redemption.

For Stays, Bonvoy might be an improvement.
For Credit Card spend, Bonvoy earning and redemption is a big devaluation from SPG.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 11:13 am
  #134  
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Originally Posted by conde
I don't agree with the assessment that Cat 6,7, and 8 awards at peak award point pricing cost less for respective hotels at previous SPG awards. Certainly not for all Bonvoy members.

For points primarily earned through stays, Bonvoy award point structures might be better than SPG. However, for people who earn most or all of their points through credit card spend, it takes considerably more credit card spend to earn points for Bonvoy Cat 6,7, and 8 awards than it did for SPG at the same properties.

For argument sake, the following general levels might be most common:
Bonvoy Cat 6= SPG Cat 5
Bonvoy Cat 7= SPG Cat 6
Bonvoy Cat 8= SPG Cat 7

Bonvoy isn't all about elite recognition. It is also about point earning and redemption.

For Stays, Bonvoy might be an improvement.
For Credit Card spend, Bonvoy earning and redemption is a big devaluation from SPG.
Bolding mine.

You help make my point for me.

For the best Marriott customers, Bonvoy is vastly better than even illustrious SPG. This is whom Marriott wants to please, as it should.

For those speculating using only credit card spend, Bonvoy is worse--as it should be. All Bonvoy elites are glad for this.

We are pleased to see Marriott send the credit card speculators back to Hilton or Hyatt or wherever they prefer.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 11:25 am
  #135  
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
I do my best to say it like it is.

For the credit cards, people are welcome to drop those if they don’t like the changes. Or they are welcome to press Marriott or Chase/Amex to provide points rather than stays with these changes. These are certainly a devaluation, but it’s a devaluation of a one night stay for each credit card.

For the rest, the sky isn’t falling despite protests to the contrary.

Even if all Cat 6, 7, and 8 awards become entirely peak pricing, they still cost less in comparable points than they did with SPG. And elites earn more points through stays with Bonvoy than they did with SPG. So again, it’s still not nearly as crushing as some are trying to pretend.
spg is gone/finished/a nice memory....trying to compare the current situation to what existed with spg is not exactly accurate....

the hard reality is that you need to compare the situation with what exists now, not what existed in a now defunct program....

the hard reality is that a hotel that costs 35k points now will cost 40k points on many dates after september 14th....50k will now be 60k, 60k will be 70k & so on....

the hard reality is that those same hotels will be 30k & 40k & 50k on dates where the rates will be low & not feasible for points redemption....

the hard reality is that this is a devaluation, no matter how much you would like to convince everyone that its not....

its not the end of the world & by far not the worst thing marriott has done....but its a devaluation, no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it....
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