Boycott Paid Stays Until CS & IT issues Fixed
Oct 31, 2018, 3:02 am
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,033
I'm with the OP. Until Marriott starts seeing a hit to its revenues, we'll just be a few disgruntled, over-entitled freaks who are easily ignored. What is needed is something to go massively viral - i.e. the United Airlines doctor video - but there's not really anything about the IT issues that will resonate with the general public in a way that will get them to boycott Marriott.
I'm not holding my breath though. Remember that Marriott Rewards consistently wins "best hotel programme" when awards are put to a public vote. IMO - which will be shouted down - Marriott Rewards has never been even close to "best", but people vote for the programmes they actually use, as a subconscious way of validating their prior choices. So it's no surprise that some people have no intention of abandoning Marriott, even for awhile.
I'm not holding my breath though. Remember that Marriott Rewards consistently wins "best hotel programme" when awards are put to a public vote. IMO - which will be shouted down - Marriott Rewards has never been even close to "best", but people vote for the programmes they actually use, as a subconscious way of validating their prior choices. So it's no surprise that some people have no intention of abandoning Marriott, even for awhile.
Oct 31, 2018, 3:32 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,179
Let’s see...since Aug 18:
(1) I’m at the StR Bal Harbour now for 5 nights on points, where I was upgraded to the Royal Suite. Despite my SNAs not clearing.
(2) I just completed an award stay for 5 nights at the Courtyard Irvine John Wayne to pick up legacy Marriott nights towards LTPP status, where I was upgraded to a king suite. The team was very nice and friendly.
(3) Last weekend I was at the SLS Beverly Hills for 4 nights paid entry level room, where I was upgraded to the SLS Suite. I had a fabulous stay.
(4) Only a few weeks ago, I was at the StR Florence for 5 nights on points, where I was upgraded to their Arno View Junior Suite—best in house despite being sold out for a conference. I had a fabulous stay. I also was at the La Bandita Townhouse in Pienza for 3 nights paid and points and had a fabulous stay. I also was at the Atlantis by Giardino Zürich for 2 nights and had a nice stay.
(5) Labor Day weekend, I had a 3 night award stay at the StR San Francisco, where I was upgraded to my usual Metropolitan Suite. I had a fabulous stay. That was my first post-Aug 18 stay.
Why would I want to boycott Marriott again?
Because I’ve had a few delays with points refunds and the IT hasn’t been as smooth as I’d like after a massive merger? Because I’ve had trouble applying SNAs, something that happened in the legacy SPG days, too? Nope, my Ambassador has managed to smooth out all of those issues for me.
Because a lot of former Marriott and even former SPG speculators are having difficulty getting award stays at massive points discounts at some of the most aspirational legacy SPG luxury hotels that never had many entry level award rooms to begin with? Because those same speculators now are desperate to blame Marriott and Marriott IT for their disappointment rather than admit their sudden entitlement?
I know Marriott has made some big mistakes. I know Marriott has a lot of work to do to improve its IT. But I also know some people just can’t handle the change...or the reality that change can be a bit painful. I also know that life with Hilton is far worse and life with Hyatt means I’ll too often not have any hotel option at all.
I can be a little patient, and I have an incredible Ambassador to help me in the meantime.
I think I’ll stick with Marriott. They got IT problems, but my hotel stays still have been fantastic. My hotels still upgrade me—even those at which I’ve never stayed before. My Ambassador status still means that I am treated extremely well....even by a Courtyard. And my Ambassador rocks.
(1) I’m at the StR Bal Harbour now for 5 nights on points, where I was upgraded to the Royal Suite. Despite my SNAs not clearing.
(2) I just completed an award stay for 5 nights at the Courtyard Irvine John Wayne to pick up legacy Marriott nights towards LTPP status, where I was upgraded to a king suite. The team was very nice and friendly.
(3) Last weekend I was at the SLS Beverly Hills for 4 nights paid entry level room, where I was upgraded to the SLS Suite. I had a fabulous stay.
(4) Only a few weeks ago, I was at the StR Florence for 5 nights on points, where I was upgraded to their Arno View Junior Suite—best in house despite being sold out for a conference. I had a fabulous stay. I also was at the La Bandita Townhouse in Pienza for 3 nights paid and points and had a fabulous stay. I also was at the Atlantis by Giardino Zürich for 2 nights and had a nice stay.
(5) Labor Day weekend, I had a 3 night award stay at the StR San Francisco, where I was upgraded to my usual Metropolitan Suite. I had a fabulous stay. That was my first post-Aug 18 stay.
Why would I want to boycott Marriott again?
Because I’ve had a few delays with points refunds and the IT hasn’t been as smooth as I’d like after a massive merger? Because I’ve had trouble applying SNAs, something that happened in the legacy SPG days, too? Nope, my Ambassador has managed to smooth out all of those issues for me.
Because a lot of former Marriott and even former SPG speculators are having difficulty getting award stays at massive points discounts at some of the most aspirational legacy SPG luxury hotels that never had many entry level award rooms to begin with? Because those same speculators now are desperate to blame Marriott and Marriott IT for their disappointment rather than admit their sudden entitlement?
I know Marriott has made some big mistakes. I know Marriott has a lot of work to do to improve its IT. But I also know some people just can’t handle the change...or the reality that change can be a bit painful. I also know that life with Hilton is far worse and life with Hyatt means I’ll too often not have any hotel option at all.
I can be a little patient, and I have an incredible Ambassador to help me in the meantime.
I think I’ll stick with Marriott. They got IT problems, but my hotel stays still have been fantastic. My hotels still upgrade me—even those at which I’ve never stayed before. My Ambassador status still means that I am treated extremely well....even by a Courtyard. And my Ambassador rocks.
You are still on rat race to get lifetime. But for thosr of US with lifetime it is not worth it.
No one is upset that we couldn't use points for booking future category 8 properties at discounted rates - we are ticked off that we aren't told immediately on app or by phone within a 2 minute check that 1) there are rooms available or 2) there are no rooms available. I don't care what the answer is... I just care about an answer. An honest one.
Suiran does not show up on my app, only on website. Website says even if point availability not showing on website to call hotel property directly. Property says to call CS directly. China CS can't figure it out so they tell you to call US CS.
That waste of time is the problem... As is being told different things by each CS, property and app.
Where did I complain about not being allowed to use points? I did complain that I am not told if I can use points.
Today I got an enail saying I canceled all my suite nights. I didn't. It took forever to apply them in first place. Calls, different devices. Now I have to start all over.
Complaining that suite nights don't go through? No. Mad that I have to waste so much time trying to apply them in first place and again with the default response from email CS is to call US customer service because they are only one that can fix things.
How is it possible only US CS can solve anything? And when I call, they actually can't solve?
Entitled? Yes. I am entitled to what I paid for. Nothing more. But certainly not the less that I am getting now.
Oct 31, 2018, 6:25 am
#33
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I'm with the OP. Until Marriott starts seeing a hit to its revenues, we'll just be a few disgruntled, over-entitled freaks who are easily ignored. What is needed is something to go massively viral - i.e. the United Airlines doctor video - but there's not really anything about the IT issues that will resonate with the general public in a way that will get them to boycott Marriott.
Your last statement is key. The general public, and even many elites, are not encountering any issues with Marriott. There are a few dozen people on FT...let's even be generous and say its a couple hundred, which certainly equates to some % of the customer base that are. The people posting here are a vocal minority of customers. I work for a company that uses Marriott heavily. Neither I nor my co-workers have experienced any issues. I'm legacy Marriott, but many of them are legacy SPG (I just joined the company this year).
Even if everyone posting here who is experiencing issues were to boycott, it wouldn't be noticeable. But, two things are important:
1) Marriott needs to fix the issues for those people, and they need to communicate a plan. Personally, I believe they don't know what the cause of the issues are at this point.
2) If Marriott's issues are affecting anyone in a real way, they should absolutely consider an individual decision to book elsewhere. It's not about a boycott (which won't get issues fixed any faster). The fact is that work travel has enough inherent stress that if the IT issues are adding to your stress, it's a simple way to make your job or life easier for now.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people waste time pondering whether to book away if they're having issues. If it were frustrating me to this extent, I'd just book at Hiltons. When my favorite lunch restaurant has too long of a line, I go to my second favorite. It's not something that takes me weeks of posting and discussing with others to decide.
Oct 31, 2018, 6:41 am
#34
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: Hyatt Glob; UA 1K; BonVoyage LTT (RIP SPG); HH Dia; JX Insighter
Posts: 1,642
If your goal is to boycott while still redeeming, you’re kind of shooting yourself in the foot. There’s rev rec when you use those points, and in fact you’re also relieving the liability the points have on the balance sheet. The best thing you could do is just leave your points stranded and active.
Oct 31, 2018, 6:50 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,804
The best boycott would be moving all the stays and abandon MR altogether.
(maybe transfer out all points to airline miles and redeem there)
Although I guess most people wont go to that extreme.
And if MR only lose hundred or even couple of thousands members by that way (even if they all plt premier and above), it still a very small for Marriott and less likely to be noticed.
(maybe transfer out all points to airline miles and redeem there)
Although I guess most people wont go to that extreme.
And if MR only lose hundred or even couple of thousands members by that way (even if they all plt premier and above), it still a very small for Marriott and less likely to be noticed.
Oct 31, 2018, 6:58 am
#36
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,804
And remember, even the UA doc video didn't really impact UA. A lot of social media is just noise, not reality.
Your last statement is key. The general public, and even many elites, are not encountering any issues with Marriott. There are a few dozen people on FT...let's even be generous and say its a couple hundred, which certainly equates to some % of the customer base that are. The people posting here are a vocal minority of customers. I work for a company that uses Marriott heavily. Neither I nor my co-workers have experienced any issues. I'm legacy Marriott, but many of them are legacy SPG (I just joined the company this year).
Even if everyone posting here who is experiencing issues were to boycott, it wouldn't be noticeable. But, two things are important:
1) Marriott needs to fix the issues for those people, and they need to communicate a plan. Personally, I believe they don't know what the cause of the issues are at this point.
2) If Marriott's issues are affecting anyone in a real way, they should absolutely consider an individual decision to book elsewhere. It's not about a boycott (which won't get issues fixed any faster). The fact is that work travel has enough inherent stress that if the IT issues are adding to your stress, it's a simple way to make your job or life easier for now.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people waste time pondering whether to book away if they're having issues. If it were frustrating me to this extent, I'd just book at Hiltons. When my favorite lunch restaurant has too long of a line, I go to my second favorite. It's not something that takes me weeks of posting and discussing with others to decide.
Your last statement is key. The general public, and even many elites, are not encountering any issues with Marriott. There are a few dozen people on FT...let's even be generous and say its a couple hundred, which certainly equates to some % of the customer base that are. The people posting here are a vocal minority of customers. I work for a company that uses Marriott heavily. Neither I nor my co-workers have experienced any issues. I'm legacy Marriott, but many of them are legacy SPG (I just joined the company this year).
Even if everyone posting here who is experiencing issues were to boycott, it wouldn't be noticeable. But, two things are important:
1) Marriott needs to fix the issues for those people, and they need to communicate a plan. Personally, I believe they don't know what the cause of the issues are at this point.
2) If Marriott's issues are affecting anyone in a real way, they should absolutely consider an individual decision to book elsewhere. It's not about a boycott (which won't get issues fixed any faster). The fact is that work travel has enough inherent stress that if the IT issues are adding to your stress, it's a simple way to make your job or life easier for now.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people waste time pondering whether to book away if they're having issues. If it were frustrating me to this extent, I'd just book at Hiltons. When my favorite lunch restaurant has too long of a line, I go to my second favorite. It's not something that takes me weeks of posting and discussing with others to decide.
And for the IT issues itself, most people just making a simple paid reservation, so the IT issues is not affecting them.
(Did make a paid reservation for 21/11 at St Regis Tianjin and it was done without issue)
Didnt try apply SNA or use points for that stays. .
I do encounter issues with ambassador email address, but once me and my ambassador detemine which address works we can communicate without issue.
Oct 31, 2018, 7:17 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: England - UK
Posts: 512
I'm not sure about that. There is a difference between a regular customer who pays and stays regularly and another customer who turned up once and reception desk told them if they signed up they'd get free wifi, and they never went back. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the small percentage of customers who are complaining about this are actually the ones who are doing all the stays.
Oct 31, 2018, 7:35 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,033
The number of people participating in the boycott needs to be huge to get Marriott attention ... Thats because we dealing with large number of MR members.
And for the IT issues itself, most people just making a simple paid reservation, so the IT issues is not affecting them.
(Did make a paid reservation for 21/11 at St Regis Tianjin and it was done without issue)
Didnt try apply SNA or use points for that stays. .
I do encounter issues with ambassador email address, but once me and my ambassador detemine which address works we can communicate without issue.
And for the IT issues itself, most people just making a simple paid reservation, so the IT issues is not affecting them.
(Did make a paid reservation for 21/11 at St Regis Tianjin and it was done without issue)
Didnt try apply SNA or use points for that stays. .
I do encounter issues with ambassador email address, but once me and my ambassador detemine which address works we can communicate without issue.
However if you:
- Actually care about spending points --> devalued award chart with peak pricing getting even closer
- Actually accumulated enough points to spend on a Travel Package --> piss off for a month and forget about using it at an ex-SPG hotel (or a nicer hotel) until we say so
- Care about regular or lifetime status --> leave us alone until the end of 2018, when we "promise" to run a sweep and fix everything
- Convert points into miles --> we couldn't care less, maybe in 6-8 weeks you'll get your miles
Oct 31, 2018, 7:45 am
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
You are still on rat race to get lifetime. But for thosr of US with lifetime it is not worth it.
No one is upset that we couldn't use points for booking future category 8 properties at discounted rates - we are ticked off that we aren't told immediately on app or by phone within a 2 minute check that 1) there are rooms available or 2) there are no rooms available. I don't care what the answer is... I just care about an answer. An honest one.
Suiran does not show up on my app, only on website. Website says even if point availability not showing on website to call hotel property directly. Property says to call CS directly. China CS can't figure it out so they tell you to call US CS.
That waste of time is the problem... As is being told different things by each CS, property and app.
Today I got an enail saying I canceled all my suite nights. I didn't. It took forever to apply them in first place. Calls, different devices. Now I have to start all over.
Last edited by bhrubin; Oct 31, 2018 at 8:06 am
Oct 31, 2018, 8:24 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
We are all complaining a lot about Marriott customer service and IT issues. But Marriott clearly doesn't care about our complaints. Clearly.
And our complaints are falling on deaf ears.
I have had it as I have written repeatedly. Today for example I got an email saying I cancelled my suite night requests... This was after hours of trying to apply them in the first place bouncing between APP, website & CS agent! Now I have to start process all over. I have called CS on 2 continents this past week, emailed over 10 times to fix issues that should not be issues. None of the issues are resolved. I still can't see all my upcoming reservations, and can't book properties half the time.
Quite clearly Marriott thinks all is well with integration except for us at the fringe.
Let's vote with our wallets until IT and CS issues addressed. Perhaps only then will that pressure Wall Street and real estate owners to push corporate. Being loyal meant ease of life, extraordinary service and nice benefits, I am not getting this so why bother with Marriott?
1) if you have achieved lifetime status, you stop booking Marriott paid stays unless forced
2) for non lifetimes, stay at Marriott until you requalify for plat and then stop booking paid stays for that qualifying year
We have to remember for all the rhetoric that Marriott considers property owners, not us, its clients. My guess is Marriott will realize/ think the costs of maintaining a loyalty program at the high end is too high and will start keeping the current terrible service and rollback benefits.
If their profits keep coming in, who cares about the truly loyal consumers and our problems? The only way Marriott seems to think is on revenue, profits, etc.
Anyone else with me?
And our complaints are falling on deaf ears.
I have had it as I have written repeatedly. Today for example I got an email saying I cancelled my suite night requests... This was after hours of trying to apply them in the first place bouncing between APP, website & CS agent! Now I have to start process all over. I have called CS on 2 continents this past week, emailed over 10 times to fix issues that should not be issues. None of the issues are resolved. I still can't see all my upcoming reservations, and can't book properties half the time.
Quite clearly Marriott thinks all is well with integration except for us at the fringe.
Let's vote with our wallets until IT and CS issues addressed. Perhaps only then will that pressure Wall Street and real estate owners to push corporate. Being loyal meant ease of life, extraordinary service and nice benefits, I am not getting this so why bother with Marriott?
1) if you have achieved lifetime status, you stop booking Marriott paid stays unless forced
2) for non lifetimes, stay at Marriott until you requalify for plat and then stop booking paid stays for that qualifying year
We have to remember for all the rhetoric that Marriott considers property owners, not us, its clients. My guess is Marriott will realize/ think the costs of maintaining a loyalty program at the high end is too high and will start keeping the current terrible service and rollback benefits.
If their profits keep coming in, who cares about the truly loyal consumers and our problems? The only way Marriott seems to think is on revenue, profits, etc.
Anyone else with me?
Oct 31, 2018, 8:45 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: PHL, NYC
Programs: AA PLT, DL SLV, UA SLV, MR LTT, HH DIA
Posts: 10,060
Last edited by PHL; Oct 31, 2018 at 9:07 am
Oct 31, 2018, 8:49 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I'm not sure about that. There is a difference between a regular customer who pays and stays regularly and another customer who turned up once and reception desk told them if they signed up they'd get free wifi, and they never went back. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the small percentage of customers who are complaining about this are actually the ones who are doing all the stays.
But how many are experiencing issues that cause them trouble? I've had maybe 6-8 stays since August, with no issues at all, at both legacy Marriotts and Starwoods. The service at the properties has been mostly comparable to before the merger.
I understand the anger and frustration when an individual is constantly experiencing issues. But it's not logical to assume that there's a lot of other people with the same experience. It's much more likely, based on the small amount of noise, that it's not a large group. So those affected should certainly take action. Why continue to give money to a company that frustrates and angers you? The solution is on an individual level, not a group level.
I could go on... Marriott is burning through loyalty programme goodwill as fast as they can. But if they don't see the hit on revenue, then the final leap to crushing the loyalty programme is pretty simple. Even if today you think you're OK and like your regular hotels, eventually you'll get burnt as well...
There seems to be enough anger over the loyalty program that Marriott will lose a few top customers. They'll also likely gain a few given the fact that they still have a very good rewards program in comparison to other hotels, and they now have a much larger footprint, with additional brands and categories. My guess is after this all settles, the merger is worth it to Marriott, even if they lose a few of the people here.
Oct 31, 2018, 9:00 am
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,423
I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of stays/revenue contributed by this "small percentage" of customers. I don't have any stats for Marriott, but somewhat comparably, I recall seeing at one point that non-status customers made up something like 2/3 of the revenue on UA. Maybe it's similar for Marriott?
That said, everyone here is just speculating about the impact of the integration and customer service problems on Marriott's bottom line. We'll know more when their numbers are published (Nov. 5), but even then Marriott is likely to downplay any impact.
Personally, I would have already moved my business elsewhere if I had a better option. Whether I will go for 75 next year as opposed to just 50 I haven't yet decided.
Oct 31, 2018, 9:05 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New York (Brooklyn)
Programs: Delta Gold, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 441
I already moved 90 percent or more of my stays to other properties, though that was occurring even before the merger as I had some just incomrehensibly poor stays. I really don’t understand the wringing of hands and threats of I am really going to leave this time. This isn’t a marriage, either leave or don’t, but the constant threats, without any concrete action, are growing tiresome.
Oct 31, 2018, 9:11 am
#45
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Hard to call it a "boycott" (that means it sound more purpose-driven than it really is), but I've been staying almost entirely at Hiltons and Hyatts since August.
Simple reasoning: when I go look for hotels, I'm often finding the Marriott app doesn't work or provides incomplete information. Hilton and Hyatt apps work well. Although Hyatt doesn't provide me elite benefits, I've been selecting mostly Hyatt Place stays with them, and they have gone well. I'm Hilton Diamond which, to be honest, is just as bland as Marriott Platinum Premier in terms of benefits, but at least their app and digital key are working well almost everywhere I go. ES, DT and regular Hilton seem to have good digital key coverage at this point.
When the dust settles, I'll return to Marriott. But it's clear right now they aren't ready for my business. Hopefully that's not a long-term thing.
Simple reasoning: when I go look for hotels, I'm often finding the Marriott app doesn't work or provides incomplete information. Hilton and Hyatt apps work well. Although Hyatt doesn't provide me elite benefits, I've been selecting mostly Hyatt Place stays with them, and they have gone well. I'm Hilton Diamond which, to be honest, is just as bland as Marriott Platinum Premier in terms of benefits, but at least their app and digital key are working well almost everywhere I go. ES, DT and regular Hilton seem to have good digital key coverage at this point.
When the dust settles, I'll return to Marriott. But it's clear right now they aren't ready for my business. Hopefully that's not a long-term thing.