Travel Package General Discussion Thread

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Old Sep 2, 19, 10:14 pm   -   Wikipost
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Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2018)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.

When converting your legacy certificate to a new certificate your prior certificate is cancelled and your new certificate will (in most cases) have an expiration date that is 12 months from the date of issuance (today).

The codes for the New Category partial packages are:
5-night packages
  • OC5=530T/P530 is now NC4 QP53
  • OC6=570T/P570 is now NC4 QP53
  • OC7=610T/P610 is now NC5 QP61 (refund value: 45K)
  • OC8=650T/P650 is now NC5 QP?? (Refund value: 75k)
  • OC9=690T/P690 is now NC6 QP69
7-night packages
  • NC4 QP83 = OC5 830T/P830 (refund value: 45K)
  • NC4 QP87 = OC6 870T/P870 (refund value: 75K)
  • NC5 QP91 = OC7 910T/P910 (refund value: 105K)
  • NC5 QP95 = OC8 950T/P950 (refund value: 135K)
  • NC6 QP99 = OC9 990T/P990 (refund value: 165K)
  • NC6 QP99 = OC Tier 1-3 L830 (refund value: 195K)
  • NC7 QL87 = OC Tier 4-5 L870 (refund value: 315K)
Other 7-night packages
  • NC5 QP88 = OC7 P880 (refund value: 135K)
  • NC5 QP92 = OC8 P920 (refund value: 165K)
legend:
NCx = new certificate category
QPxx = post-merger converted partial package
OCx = old certificate category
QLxx = post-merger converted partial package (only QL known so far is QL87 for NC7)
xx0T = initial package;
Pxx0 = partial package;

************************************************** *******

MARRIOT UK: +44 20 7012 7312

For best practices on converting OC to NC, I’ve copied post # 1181 here. Thank you jameswes!


(Also, never use the word UPGRADE. You must say you want to CONVERT your certs.)

New data point for the new year.

I've read/followed the majority of this thread and now that I have a plan for how to use the travel certificates I made it happen

Last July, I purchased two OC1-5 travel packages. I have an upcoming trip that I wanted to use the certificates to book two rooms at an NC5 hotel.

1) Verified that I had an extra 120,000 MR points in my account (2x60,000 to upgrade from NC4 to NC5)
2) Call the UK Marriott # in the wiki (+44 20 7012 7312). In total, the call took about 25 minutes.
3) Explain that I have a booking I wanted to make, and I wanted to Cancel my two 830T certificates and convert them to two QP91 certificates. I did need to be clear with the rep that I was going to be using additional points from my account to upgrade the certificate.
Canceling two 830T (OC1-5) added 90,000 points (2x45000) to my account
Ordering two QP91 (NC5) subtracted 210,000 points (2x105K) from my account
4) The rep said that their "specialist" wasn't in the office, but she would leave detailed notes and have him do it the next day
5) True to form, the next day (today), I got an emails saying that my old certificates were canceled and new certificates were ordered.
Email clearly states that 830T certs were canceled
Second email clearly states that QP91 certs were ordered and 210K points were redeemed
Email (and account) state that the expiration is one year from today
As typical, App is up-to-date, website doesn't show the updated information yet.
IMPORTANT! Possible Points Advance Implications of March 5 category changes: There’s a (potential) issue with the category changes and Points Advance reservations. Marriott included the following information when they emailed some of us about the upcoming changes: “Points Advance — Members who wish to book a points advance redemption under the current Marriott Rewards and SPG award chart are encouraged to order redemption certificates before March 5 to lock in the rate. On March 5, redemption bookings are subject to the new unified program award chart.” We’ve reached out to Marriott to confirm the practical implications of this verbiage, as it sounds like Points Advance reservations will revert to the new pricing if they don’t have certificates attached prior to March 5. To be on the safe side, if your hotel is increasing in category be sure your TP certificate is attached to the reservation before March 5.

Concerning use of TP for peak or off-peak, see post 2179:

Originally Posted by Marriott Bonvoy Lurker View Post
The new award redemption chart will not impact Travel Packages. After these changes go into effect, you'll be able to book a hotel within the category assigned to your Travel Package, regardless of whether the dates at the hotel are in off-peak, standard or peak rates.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 8:30 am
  #541  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The only ultimate recourse is not limited to sending future business elsewhere. There are jurisdictions where consumers may have superior legal and administrative/regulatory relief available to them if pursuing Marriott for its handling/mishandling of TP cert/booking holders.
I look forward to you providing actual applicable examples of which legal jurisdiction protects miles, points, etc.

Airlines are free to add fuel surcharges, co-payments, close-in charges, etc. as they wish to awards. Hotels can add resort fees to award nights. Hotels (and chains) are free to place whatever capacity controls they choose on free award nights. (in a legal, consumer protection sense)

We participate according to the T&Cs that the companies are free to rewrite at any time. Marriott is free to move 99% of its hotels out of Categories 1-4 if it so chooses and there will be no legal recourse. Simply it will ruin the perception of loyalty and cost them future business.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 10:27 am
  #542  
 
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Originally Posted by atcanobbio View Post
which spg hotel brands can't be booked with these certs?
So far I don't think anything bar Four Points can be booked. Last rep I spoke to said Tribute hotels due in the next couple of weeks, no idea about others.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 10:40 am
  #543  
 
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Originally Posted by PanAmWT View Post
I have no problem for them to auto-convert mine, provided I can use the certs for starwood hotels. I am waiting eagerly as I have three stays October and November in Sheratons but so far I cannot use the certs for any.
If the schedule remains the same all Sheraton’s will transfer to Marriott’s reservation platform on 30th October, will then be able to attatch and use travel package certs.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 10:41 am
  #544  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Originally Posted by eethan View Post
As I understand, some hotel brands still cannot be redeemed with these certificates. Marriott targets Dec to fix this, but recent track records don't look promising.

Why is everyone just accepting this mess? Marriott promised all systems live on Aug 18. For a couple weeks after that date, we still couldn't use the certs on Marriott hotels.

Marriott will put lipstick on a pig and claim that we'll eventually be able to redeem at more properties. But this doesn't make up for all the rampant devaluations. So many people are confused and wasting time on this. - That's messed up!

Marriott is taking the easy way out by offering free extensions on the expiration date. Does that make things right? - Not for those of us who needed to use our certs in the past weeks!

Marriott never promised OLD TPs would be usable at legacy SPG properties after the programs’ merger.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 10:44 am
  #545  
 
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Originally Posted by craigthemif View Post
I look forward to you providing actual applicable examples of which legal jurisdiction protects miles, points, etc.

Airlines are free to add fuel surcharges, co-payments, close-in charges, etc. as they wish to awards. Hotels can add resort fees to award nights. Hotels (and chains) are free to place whatever capacity controls they choose on free award nights. (in a legal, consumer protection sense)

We participate according to the T&Cs that the companies are free to rewrite at any time. Marriott is free to move 99% of its hotels out of Categories 1-4 if it so chooses and there will be no legal recourse. Simply it will ruin the perception of loyalty and cost them future business.
In the UK consumer law does not permit companies to rely on one-sided "can change the Terms at any time"-type terms.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 11:32 am
  #546  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoonwards View Post
In the UK consumer law does not permit companies to rely on one-sided "can change the Terms at any time"-type terms.
I don't recall a successful lawsuit when BA massively devalued in 2015... Nor one that obliges BA to stop adding "carrier surcharges" to reward tickets. And one assumes that there would be sufficient Avios-collecting lawyers in the UK to give it a go...

Loyalty schemes in the UK are more afraid of the Daily Mail than UK consumer law.

Besides I'm not sure where you're going to find the written commitment to spend old Marriott travel certificates at SPG hotels, or whatever the original complaint was.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 11:55 am
  #547  
 
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Originally Posted by craigthemif View Post
I don't recall a successful lawsuit when BA massively devalued in 2015... Nor one that obliges BA to stop adding "carrier surcharges" to reward tickets. And one assumes that there would be sufficient Avios-collecting lawyers in the UK to give it a go...

Loyalty schemes in the UK are more afraid of the Daily Mail than UK consumer law.

Besides I'm not sure where you're going to find the written commitment to spend old Marriott travel certificates at SPG hotels, or whatever the original complaint was.
Of course a company can choose to change its prices, that's something different. What I said is that UK consumer law doesn't generally allow companies to enforce a unilateral change of terms on consumers for contracts they have already agreed with the consumer.

For example, a number of people bought Cat 1-5 TP certificates on the understanding that (a) they could be upgraded at any future point in time to a higher category; (b) they had a refund value of 45K; and (c) they could be extended for a year.

If Marriott decides not to let holders of Cat 1-5 TP certificates upgrade, refund or extend on the same terms then they are attempting to unilaterally change the terms of the contracts agreed between Marriott and the consumer, which is generally not binding (the legal test: "A term which has the object or effect of enabling the trader to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.")
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Old Oct 5, 18, 1:04 pm
  #548  
 
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Originally Posted by craigthemif View Post
I don't recall a successful lawsuit when BA massively devalued in 2015... Nor one that obliges BA to stop adding "carrier surcharges" to reward tickets. And one assumes that there would be sufficient Avios-collecting lawyers in the UK to give it a go...

Loyalty schemes in the UK are more afraid of the Daily Mail than UK consumer law.

Besides I'm not sure where you're going to find the written commitment to spend old Marriott travel certificates at SPG hotels, or whatever the original complaint was.
Why do you defend big corp rights to screw consumers and change terms at will ? Are you a business owner ? This attitude is hurting consumers. Consumers should stand together and lobby for the implementation of better consumer protection rights and laws.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 1:13 pm
  #549  
 
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Originally Posted by MePlatPremier View Post
Marriott never promised OLD TPs would be usable at legacy SPG properties after the programs’ merger.
A NEW TP cert is not even usable at most Starwood properties now. What about that?
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Old Oct 5, 18, 1:14 pm
  #550  
 
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Originally Posted by hearingdouble View Post
So I've managed to get to the bottom of this. I think it's to do with how certificates show on the new Marriott system.

I also had a second Cat1-4 certificate, which I have attached to a separate 7-night Cat4 stay (using the certificate in full). This too is showing 45,000 points outstanding on the reservation.

What's actually going on is that my Cat1-4 certificate has a system/cancellation value of 45,000 points. So, the full points cost of the stay is somehow 'reduced' to the value of the certificate, and then the certificate is attached to offset this. I have called both hotels and both are satisfied that there is a certificate covering the full stay. Only, it doesn't look that way on the website!

The trick is to ignore the "My Trips" section of the Marriott website, as this is completely misleading/confusing. Another Marriott IT triumph!
Is this what your reservation looks like? This is what happened when I converted an OC6 to NC4 and had it attached.
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Old Oct 5, 18, 3:01 pm
  #551  
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Originally Posted by craigthemif View Post
I look forward to you providing actual applicable examples of which legal jurisdiction protects miles, points, etc.
You may get some actual examples after the fact, if Marriott doesn’t again try to buy silence with a very lucrative settlement with an NDA.

Your notion that a loyalty program operator can change terms and conditions however the company wants just doesn’t hold up as defensible in each and every jurisdiction where Marriott has a consumer nexus. And Marriott T&Cs don’t provide Marriott universal immunity from all legal and administrative/regulatory pursuit by or on behalf of consumers. I won’t shed tears for Marriott when it has to pay up for its anti-customer moves with regard to TP certs issued prior to August 18th. Will you shed tears for Marriott?
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Old Oct 5, 18, 3:07 pm
  #552  
 
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Originally Posted by skimthetrees View Post
A NEW TP cert is not even usable at most Starwood properties now. What about that?
Is that a new TP ordered after Aug 18 or a converted old TP ?
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Old Oct 5, 18, 4:30 pm
  #553  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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4 points can be booked?

Originally Posted by EDIflyer View Post
So far I don't think anything bar Four Points can be booked. Last rep I spoke to said Tribute hotels due in the next couple of weeks, no idea about others.
hi, so are you saying 4 points can be booked with certificates now?
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Old Oct 5, 18, 8:26 pm
  #554  
 
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Originally Posted by MePlatPremier View Post


Is that a new TP ordered after Aug 18 or a converted old TP ?
Either one.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 12:02 am
  #555  
 
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek View Post
Why do you defend big corp rights to screw consumers and change terms at will ? Are you a business owner ? This attitude is hurting consumers. Consumers should stand together and lobby for the implementation of better consumer protection rights and laws.
I'm not defending the company. I'm taking all of my business elsewhere as that's the only real recourse.

I just roll my eyes when Flyertalkers write about "we're not going to take it" or "we're going to sue" when actually they just come to Flyertalk to moan and rant. I try to probe the basis upon which people believe that the current TP mess has contravened the actual T&Cs of Marriott Rewards and I get nada... apart from vague mentions of "consumer protections" that simply won't apply to travel certificates that, to the best of my knowledge, can still be used at thousands of hotels worldwide and were never specifically allowed to be upgraded or downgraded at will.

Is it a mess? Of course. Does it impact on future business? Of course, that's my point. Is there something to sue over? Nope... But I'd be perfectly happy to be proved wrong with actual court documents.
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