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Marriott BRG Best Rate Guarantee (formerly LNF) Success, failure & discussion thread

Old Oct 5, 2018, 3:54 pm
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Marriott's Best Rate Guarantee Discussion Thread

This thread is about Marriott's BRG. If you don't know what BRG is - here's the Marriott BRG and here's the claim form.
If you're not satisfied with the outcome of your claim and wish for a second review you may reply back by email or call Marriott's BRG hotline 1-800-771-5665. A human is available at this number beginning at 9 am EST.

If you are new to this, and would like to ask fellow FTers questions regarding BRGs, then this thread is the place to start.

Hotel Name:
Date of stay:
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Marriott Brand Website Rate:
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Marriott BRG Best Rate Guarantee (formerly LNF) Success, failure & discussion thread

Old Jun 6, 2019, 9:45 am
  #841  
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Originally Posted by Zorak

It's also been established that it is the OTAs that pay the cost of an approved BRG.
One post doesn't prove that it has been "established".

I don't believe for a second that OTAs pay the cost of BRGs. The power balance is totally in favour of the OTAs in general, with their 50+% market share for hotel rooms and 20+% commissions. Any serious dent to their bottom lines from BRG fines would see them pull the branded chains, and simply sell the thousands of independent hotels. Most brand-sensitive guests are booking direct anyhow...

If Marriott (or the other chains FWIW) aren't paying the cost of BRGs, then they would simply approve most claims. They don't.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 9:54 am
  #842  
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Originally Posted by craigthemif
One post doesn't prove that it has been "established".
Fair enough. I asked my original question (that the "established" post was a response to) genuinely not knowing. Would welcome other informed responses.

Originally Posted by craigthemif
I don't believe for a second that OTAs pay the cost of BRGs. The power balance is totally in favour of the OTAs in general, with their 50+% market share for hotel rooms and 20+% commissions. Any serious dent to their bottom lines from BRG fines would see them pull the branded chains, and simply sell the thousands of independent hotels. Most brand-sensitive guests are booking direct anyhow...
In this scenario it would only be a serious dent to their bottom line if they routinely undercut the chains' own pricing, which AIUI (or at least, also in the same scenario) contractually they aren't supposed to do.

Originally Posted by craigthemif
If Marriott (or the other chains FWIW) aren't paying the cost of BRGs, then they would simply approve most claims. They don't.
*If* it's true that the cost is borne by the OTA, the individual agents still may not realize that and may be acting out of a belief they are defending the company somehow by being zealous.

I'd also be wary of extrapolating from a personal success rate or even the FT success rate (which surely has reporting bias in the statistical sense) to the overall success rate.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 9:58 am
  #843  
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Originally Posted by Zorak

It's also been established that it is the OTAs that pay the cost of an approved BRG.
I don't believe that for a minute. Just look at the source!
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 10:16 am
  #844  
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Originally Posted by margarita girl
I don't believe that for a minute. Just look at the source!
I've forgotten whatever it was that may make that poster an unreliable source... regardless, while I concede that would have a bearing on how (un)eager Marriott may be to approve BRGs in general, the fact still remains that they already have direct access to the complete dataset of BRGs attempted and approved and don't need to monitor random-sampled FT experiences for the purpose of data-mining (they could certainly have other reasons)
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 10:26 am
  #845  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveMidknight
Marriott could safe so much time and money by training his agents correctly. Because every time the agent needs to reply like 4-5 times, he is wasting time, he could use to process a claim correctly.
Technically, your math doesn't meet their rules.

You can't search each night separately. You have to search both together. If the lower rate doesn't show when you search the consecutive nights together, tough.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I like how SPG did it, when once a claim it was approved, it wasn't "looked at" again if another consecutive BRG is filed.

Marriott does it differently. The agent probably just had enough back and forth and just approved it, which is probably why you didn't even get a final approval reply to your exchange (they didn't want you to reply any further).

Originally Posted by Zorak
Fair enough. I asked my original question (that the "established" post was a response to) genuinely not knowing. Would welcome other informed responses.
The OTAs definitely don't pay it. It's the job of the hotel's Revenue Manager to make sure the Marriott branded sites are the cheapest.

Under SPG, each approved BRG (regardless of whether the stay was consumed) cost the property $25 plus the cost of the points, or the discounted rate plus an additional 25% off.

I'm guessing Marriott does it similarly. Charging properties, albeit the exact numbers I'm not certain of. No way they could even get OTAs to pay, because OTAs aren't the ones with any contractual guarantee of not having a lower price than Marriott.

Marriott has such a guarantee for consumers and enforces it upon properties to ensure they are checking the market and offering the lowest rate available.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 11:20 am
  #846  
 
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345
Technically, your math doesn't meet their rules.

You can't search each night separately. You have to search both together. If the lower rate doesn't show when you search the consecutive nights together, tough.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I like how SPG did it, when once a claim it was approved, it wasn't "looked at" again if another consecutive BRG is filed.

Marriott does it differently. The agent probably just had enough back and forth and just approved it, which is probably why you didn't even get a final approval reply to your exchange (they didn't want you to reply any further).



The OTAs definitely don't pay it. It's the job of the hotel's Revenue Manager to make sure the Marriott branded sites are the cheapest.

Under SPG, each approved BRG (regardless of whether the stay was consumed) cost the property $25 plus the cost of the points, or the discounted rate plus an additional 25% off.

I'm guessing Marriott does it similarly. Charging properties, albeit the exact numbers I'm not certain of. No way they could even get OTAs to pay, because OTAs aren't the ones with any contractual guarantee of not having a lower price than Marriott.

Marriott has such a guarantee for consumers and enforces it upon properties to ensure they are checking the market and offering the lowest rate available.
This makes a lot more sense, especially when you find hotels which have lower prices across multiple OTAs that aren't a part of the same conglomerate.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 12:02 pm
  #847  
 
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345
Technically, your math doesn't meet their rules.

You can't search each night separately. You have to search both together. If the lower rate doesn't show when you search the consecutive nights together, tough.
I did a search for both nights together and it was just twice the price of the single nights. The reason why I also needed to search for a single night separately, was because the first night was already approved 5 weeks ago and I just needed an extra night, for which I send a new claim.
The agent was saying in his emails that he could find that a single night was lower, but not both nights together. Which was not correct! As it was on the Marriott and the competing website just twice the price of a single night.
That's what I pointed out to him.

Originally Posted by btonkid12345
The agent probably just had enough back and forth and just approved it, which is probably why you didn't even get a final approval reply to your exchange (they didn't want you to reply any further).
I don't think that the hotel would be pleased, if a claim just gets approved, because a agent didn't want to reply any further. Especially, if the agent is correct in his denial of the claim. Because from what I am told by a couple of hotels, every approved claim is quite expensive for the hotel.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 12:22 pm
  #848  
 
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 12:32 pm
  #849  
 
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Originally Posted by Zorak
I've forgotten whatever it was that may make that poster an unreliable source... regardless, while I concede that would have a bearing on how (un)eager Marriott may be to approve BRGs in general, the fact still remains that they already have direct access to the complete dataset of BRGs attempted and approved and don't need to monitor random-sampled FT experiences for the purpose of data-mining (they could certainly have other reasons)
yes, I would also like to know what makes the poster unreliable... its just that some people have a really hard time dealing with people with different opinions than their own. without the ability to reason, the only argument they can resort to is insult and name-calling. its just sad and i really feel sorry for someone like that

Last edited by MePlatPremier; Jun 6, 2019 at 1:58 pm
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 1:17 pm
  #850  
 
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Originally Posted by craigthemif
One post doesn't prove that it has been "established".

I don't believe for a second that OTAs pay the cost of BRGs.
while it is generally true that one post doesnt prove that something has been established, there actually are posters on this forum that are knowledgeable about what they post, whereas others know nothing about what they talk about and just cant refrain themselves from speaking gibberish.Check clause 6.2 F of the Marriott Wholesaler Programs T&Cs on https://marriottwholesalers.com/termscondition
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 12:47 pm
  #851  
 
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I'm trying to do a LNF for a non-standard room type (room has its own pool). Marriott only offers a rate for that room type for the room alone. OTA offers that specific room type plus breakfast and dinner included. Both are refundable rates with the same cxl policies. LNF denied because it's not the same rate type (as in, one has breakfast+dinner and the other has nothing). How do I get Marriott to match the Breakfast + Dinner offering such that I can book through them and LNF?
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 pm
  #852  
 
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Originally Posted by unavaca
I'm trying to do a LNF for a non-standard room type (room has its own pool). Marriott only offers a rate for that room type for the room alone. OTA offers that specific room type plus breakfast and dinner included. Both are refundable rates with the same cxl policies. LNF denied because it's not the same rate type (as in, one has breakfast+dinner and the other has nothing). How do I get Marriott to match the Breakfast + Dinner offering such that I can book through them and LNF?
You can't in this case. Your reservation from marriott.com and the rate you are comparing needs to have the exact same room type and extras. Everything needs to be 100% exact - except for the rate of course.
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Old Jun 8, 2019, 6:50 pm
  #853  
 
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Does it at all help to actually make the rez on the third party booking site for the same room? I can do that since it's refundable.

Also, how long is the typical wait time after a claim is submitted? Do you all call after submitting or just wait for email?

Related question: do the rates at OTA ever seem to go up as a RESULT of a claim?

Last edited by Stgermainparis; Jun 8, 2019 at 7:14 pm
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Old Jun 9, 2019, 12:05 am
  #854  
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Originally Posted by MePlatPremier
while it is generally true that one post doesnt prove that something has been established, there actually are posters on this forum that are knowledgeable about what they post, whereas others know nothing about what they talk about and just cant refrain themselves from speaking gibberish.Check clause 6.2 F of the Marriott Wholesaler Programs T&Cs on https://marriottwholesalers.com/termscondition
Context is everything. Whilst what you say is true, that element of the contract indemnifying Marriott for LNF claims only applies to dynamic packages utilising unpublished rates where the contract stipulates that the package must be sold as a whole (ie flights and hotel; hotel and tours; hotel and car hire) where the price of the hotel room portion must at no time be visible, apparent or known to the end-customer.

So yes, in that restricted unpacked package holiday situation the TA could end up on the hook for LNF claims but Ive never made a claim by stripping down a package, I doubt many here have. This doesnt prove that OTAs are on the hook for the costs of all successful LNF/BRG claims, very, very far from it...
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Old Jun 9, 2019, 5:26 am
  #855  
 
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Originally Posted by BrightlyBob
Context is everything. Whilst what you say is true, that element of the contract indemnifying Marriott for LNF claims only applies to dynamic packages utilising unpublished rates where the contract stipulates that the package must be sold as a whole (ie flights and hotel; hotel and tours; hotel and car hire) where the price of the hotel room portion must at no time be visible, apparent or known to the end-customer.So yes, in that restricted unpacked package holiday situation the TA could end up on the hook for LNF claims but Ive never made a claim by stripping down a package, I doubt many here have. This doesnt prove that OTAs are on the hook for the costs of all successful LNF/BRG claims, very, very far from it...
And how do you think OTAs get ahold of hotel room nights to sell? Do you think they just spontaneously show up on OTAs websites out of thin air? Or maybe you suppose the OTAs fairy godmother comes about every now and then and just drops a few hotel room nights under the OTAs pillow? The only Marriott-authorized way for an OTA to sell rooms-only to an end consumer is through commissionable rates. These rates are at BAR and paid directly to the property (prepaid or postpaid), which then pays the OTA a commission on that sale. However, because commissionable rates arent very competitive OTAs use wholesale rates to sell directly to end consumer against Marriotts policy. Thats where most, if not all, BRGable rates come from. They were never packaged to begin with. Thats why, as you naively put it, you never stripped down a package. Of course you havent! It would be extremely asinine to actually believe that that contractual provision is aimed at preventing end consumers from unbundling the tour packages they bought from very policy-compliant OTAs. What happens is this: the OTA buys from Marriott (or from a Marriott-approved wholesaler) a heavily discounted rate (some say up to 60%) on the condition that it must bundle that room stay into a packaged tour and to never sell it as room-only directly to end consumers. And what does the OTA do? It sells that rate directly to the end consumer as room-only. Why does the OTA do that? Mainly for three reasons: better margins than selling on a commission; ability to have a competitive advantage in the online market and, mainly, because in order to have access to those discounted wholesale rates, wholesalers have to meet minimum sales quotas or Marriott claws back part of the discount. So OTAs will try to meet that quota by not packaging the rates and selling them directly to the end consumer. Marriott is fully aware of that and usually will not enforce its policies. More often than not properties will just take the hit and eat up a BRG rate (theyre not so frequent anyway) as collection of compensation can be time consuming and may create ill-will with an otherwise amicable OTA. But you can bet that if the revenue lost on a BRG rate is significant the OTA is going to pay up. I once had BRG claim approved for a multiple room 15-night stay at a LC resort for less than half the published rates for those same nights. On that stay alone the hotel had a $7k loss of revenue (they calculate that by deducting the BRG approved rate from the rate you booked to file the BRG; thats why you always have to book the lowest available rate to submit a claim). I know for a fact that the resort collected this rate difference from the OTA and that the OTA never again carried that resort in its inventory.
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Last edited by MePlatPremier; Jun 9, 2019 at 5:36 am
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