Marriott baited and switched us on the upgrade policy
#31
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Because ..... it ........ won’t ...... work.
Marriott has dropped Plat nights from 75 to 50. The number of Plats will probably double, given additional earn options via Starwood hotels, and that is before adding SPG members. Big hotels will now have long lists of Plats per night. They are not all getting guaranteed suites. Marriott can write whatever rule it wants but the rooms are not there.
Who will be brave enough to suggest Plat goes back to 75?
Marriott has dropped Plat nights from 75 to 50. The number of Plats will probably double, given additional earn options via Starwood hotels, and that is before adding SPG members. Big hotels will now have long lists of Plats per night. They are not all getting guaranteed suites. Marriott can write whatever rule it wants but the rooms are not there.
Who will be brave enough to suggest Plat goes back to 75?
#32
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,151
Part of the problem is Marriott has too many easier ways to get to Plat 50 than SPG does so it inflates the membership. Like their credit card already gives a 15 night yield and a meeting gives a 10 night yield. So it's probably worth just putting the real benefits starting at Plat 75 level of the new program
#33
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CEB - primary/YVR -secondary
Programs: AC*Super Elite (100K) / PR*Elite / AY*Platinum (OWE) / SPG*Bonvoy Titanium (LTT)
Posts: 2,257
1) get rid of credit card nights
2) get rid of that 10 meetings for 10$ for 10 nights or whatever they have on MR side
#34
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / AA CK baby!
Posts: 822
I dont know what to tell you, other than when you buy a hotel chain, then you can mirror the T&Cs from whatever chain you buy out in your own new terms...
#35
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
I think the SPG team on the SPG/Marriott merge program is pushing towards increasing the link between number of nights and total revenue brought in. This is why I think they introduced the $20,000 spending threshold for Ambassadors. Now we know the highest "upgrade" priority are returning guests Platinum 100 with ambassadors (ie frequent travelers that not only have 100 nights but also spend 20,000 a year on hotels), it sounds totally fair. Then followed by those random Plat 100 with ambassadors which also make sense. After that, it's Plat any level that are returning guests followed by Plat 75. Plat 50...
Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50
It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.
Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".
For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50
It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.
Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".
For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 30,959
Simply false as shown many times.
Apparently also ditto
Let us know how it is.
Last edited by CPRich; Aug 19, 2018 at 11:21 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 30,959
"No Blackouts", which is what Marriott has had for many years, is not the same as SPG's "any standard room for sale can be redeemed".
Marriott's "No Blackouts" simply means that a property must offer award room(s) on every date. That could mean that 1 room is made available. Or 5. Or 100. But when the rooms allocated are taken, no more award nights are available, even though the standard rooms are still for sale. Available award nights are often sold out well in advance at popular vacation spots.
This is significantly different and, to me, the significant benefit loss from the old SPG program.
#38
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,956
#39
False.
"No Blackouts", which is what Marriott has had for many years, is not the same as SPG's "any standard room for sale can be redeemed".
Marriott's "No Blackouts" simply means that a property must offer award room(s) on every date. That could mean that 1 room is made available. Or 5. Or 100. But when the rooms allocated are taken, no more award nights are available, even though the standard rooms are still for sale. Available award nights are often sold out well in advance at popular vacation spots.
This is significantly different and, to me, the significant benefit loss from the old SPG program.
"No Blackouts", which is what Marriott has had for many years, is not the same as SPG's "any standard room for sale can be redeemed".
Marriott's "No Blackouts" simply means that a property must offer award room(s) on every date. That could mean that 1 room is made available. Or 5. Or 100. But when the rooms allocated are taken, no more award nights are available, even though the standard rooms are still for sale. Available award nights are often sold out well in advance at popular vacation spots.
This is significantly different and, to me, the significant benefit loss from the old SPG program.
#40
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,778
replace those credit card nights with free night certificate would be good to attract people to get the card and yet not making elite requirements "easier"
#41
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,778
I think the SPG team on the SPG/Marriott merge program is pushing towards increasing the link between number of nights and total revenue brought in. This is why I think they introduced the $20,000 spending threshold for Ambassadors. Now we know the highest "upgrade" priority are returning guests Platinum 100 with ambassadors (ie frequent travelers that not only have 100 nights but also spend 20,000 a year on hotels), it sounds totally fair. Then followed by those random Plat 100 with ambassadors which also make sense. After that, it's Plat any level that are returning guests followed by Plat 75. Plat 50...
Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50
It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.
Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".
For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50
It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.
Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".
For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
you will need whooping 667 nights to reach 20k
I guess for MR, they can afford to have increased numbers of plts and plt premiers.
But for ambassador, since they will have to assign ambassador to those people who reach ambassador tier, MR prefer to limit the number by setting the revenue requirements.
As Bhrubin mention at other thread about ambassador, the ambassador service potentially provide better benefit if ou stay at higher end hotels (StR, RC, LuxCol) then MR sure think that those people who spends 100 nights at lower end of hotels wont lose much if they dont have ambassador.
Furthermore, leaked TC did mention that MR could invite people who didnt meet the requirements for ambassador service. I can guess MR might invite people who regularly stay at StR RC LuxCol hotels and spend more than 20k (significantly above maybe?) and yet still not reach 100 nights.
For sure MR dont want to lose these high spender customers.
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,165
IMO before the merger Ambassador was like Global Services before the CO/UA merger...existed alongside the 1Ks (the regular Platinums), but didn't necessarily infringe upon their benefits. Happy harmony.
Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.
I guess we will see...
Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.
I guess we will see...
#43
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
IMO before the merger Ambassador was like Global Services before the CO/UA merger...existed alongside the 1Ks (the regular Platinums), but didn't necessarily infringe upon their benefits. Happy harmony.
Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.
I guess we will see...
Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.
I guess we will see...
#44
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
Well the new T&Cs do say that if a standard room is available for cash, it's available for points. I have just checked on a hotel i am trying to book for a saturday night stay. It's a residence inn and they have studio rooms available for sale for just saturday night so it's not a minimum night restriction that's causing this. But looking at the flexible date calendar, they have no points availability for any saturday night...even though they have points availability for every other night in september. Once things quiet down on the PP phone line, will call to test out their statement that if it's available for cash it's available for points. This seems like a pretty cut and dry test... will keep everyone posted.
#45
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SG
Programs: Marriott Plat Amb, oneworld Ruby
Posts: 132
I always used to give Marriott the benefit of the doubt, even back to the days of the Anbang bid, but I think I am now seeing their true colours for myself.
I travel to one city repeatedly for work. I stay at one legacy SPG hotel all the time, and stay elsewhere only when I can't get a room there. I have put through 90 nights there already this year (well, I would have except the integration is screwing things up and I am missing nine nights), 60+ in 2017 and 50+ in 2016. I must have racked up almost 50 stays at this hotel in the last three years (I stay 4-5 nights each time). As you can imagine, I have a wonderful relationship with staff and management: we see each other so often it would be awkward if we didn't.
The hotel has always reciprocated my loyalty, and has consistently upgraded me to a suite on every stay since I first qualified for Platinum in 2017. I used to enjoy doing an online check-in on the weekend and getting advance notice of my advance upgrade.
This coming week, my first stay there since the systems integration, I have not received any upgrade at all (well, it says "Club Room", but there's no difference between that and any standard room, except it comes with Club access).
Using the nifty new chat function, I asked the hotel if the Club Room status was final, or was there any chance of an upgrade to a suite. The duty manager replied yes, I have been allocated a Club Room, not a suite. Nothing about the hotel being sold out, nothing about no suite availability. So I asked him very nicely if I could please have a suite (my old SPG profile had a request for suite upgrades stickied to each booking), and I get some stupid pro forma response about "their utmost effort to provide you suite upgrade when available upon check-in".
I'm checking in tomorrow and will report back. I really hope this is just a bad coincidence timing-wise with the integration, but if this is the new attitude, I'm done with Starriott. If 50 stays and 200+ nights in one hotel in under three years can't win you recognition at that property, I think I'm justified in asking what will.
I travel to one city repeatedly for work. I stay at one legacy SPG hotel all the time, and stay elsewhere only when I can't get a room there. I have put through 90 nights there already this year (well, I would have except the integration is screwing things up and I am missing nine nights), 60+ in 2017 and 50+ in 2016. I must have racked up almost 50 stays at this hotel in the last three years (I stay 4-5 nights each time). As you can imagine, I have a wonderful relationship with staff and management: we see each other so often it would be awkward if we didn't.
The hotel has always reciprocated my loyalty, and has consistently upgraded me to a suite on every stay since I first qualified for Platinum in 2017. I used to enjoy doing an online check-in on the weekend and getting advance notice of my advance upgrade.
This coming week, my first stay there since the systems integration, I have not received any upgrade at all (well, it says "Club Room", but there's no difference between that and any standard room, except it comes with Club access).
Using the nifty new chat function, I asked the hotel if the Club Room status was final, or was there any chance of an upgrade to a suite. The duty manager replied yes, I have been allocated a Club Room, not a suite. Nothing about the hotel being sold out, nothing about no suite availability. So I asked him very nicely if I could please have a suite (my old SPG profile had a request for suite upgrades stickied to each booking), and I get some stupid pro forma response about "their utmost effort to provide you suite upgrade when available upon check-in".
I'm checking in tomorrow and will report back. I really hope this is just a bad coincidence timing-wise with the integration, but if this is the new attitude, I'm done with Starriott. If 50 stays and 200+ nights in one hotel in under three years can't win you recognition at that property, I think I'm justified in asking what will.