Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Hotels and Places to Stay > Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy
Reload this Page >

Marriott baited and switched us on the upgrade policy

Marriott baited and switched us on the upgrade policy

Old Aug 19, 2018, 1:24 pm
  #31  
SPG Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by Raffles
Because ..... it ........ won’t ...... work.

Marriott has dropped Plat nights from 75 to 50. The number of Plats will probably double, given additional earn options via Starwood hotels, and that is before adding SPG members. Big hotels will now have long lists of Plats per night. They are not all getting guaranteed suites. Marriott can write whatever rule it wants but the rooms are not there.

Who will be brave enough to suggest Plat goes back to 75?
Part of the problem is Marriott has too many easier ways to get to Plat 50 than SPG does so it inflates the membership. Like their credit card already gives a 15 night yield and a meeting gives a 10 night yield. So it's probably worth just putting the real benefits starting at Plat 75 level of the new program
remymartin likes this.
yeunganson is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 4:19 pm
  #32  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,151
Originally Posted by yeunganson
Part of the problem is Marriott has too many easier ways to get to Plat 50 than SPG does so it inflates the membership. Like their credit card already gives a 15 night yield and a meeting gives a 10 night yield. So it's probably worth just putting the real benefits starting at Plat 75 level of the new program
Actually, many countries don’t offer such a credit card so rather than shifting the goalposts to Plat75, would anyone be brave enough to suggest getting rid of credit card nights?!
yorkboy24 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 4:31 pm
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CEB - primary/YVR -secondary
Programs: AC*Super Elite (100K) / PR*Elite / AY*Platinum (OWE) / SPG*Bonvoy Titanium (LTT)
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted by yorkboy24


Actually, many countries don’t offer such a credit card so rather than shifting the goalposts to Plat75, would anyone be brave enough to suggest getting rid of credit card nights?!
i suggest to:
1) get rid of credit card nights
2) get rid of that 10 meetings for 10$ for 10 nights or whatever they have on MR side
supatight80 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 5:35 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / AA CK baby!
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by kaizen7
Doesnt really matter on who bought who. As Marriott pretty much copy and paste SPG policy about SNA.

If the intention is mirror SPG policy on suite upgrade then just use SPG terms and condition.
I dont know what to tell you, other than when you buy a hotel chain, then you can mirror the T&Cs from whatever chain you buy out in your own new terms...
stant is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 8:49 pm
  #35  
SPG Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
I think the SPG team on the SPG/Marriott merge program is pushing towards increasing the link between number of nights and total revenue brought in. This is why I think they introduced the $20,000 spending threshold for Ambassadors. Now we know the highest "upgrade" priority are returning guests Platinum 100 with ambassadors (ie frequent travelers that not only have 100 nights but also spend 20,000 a year on hotels), it sounds totally fair. Then followed by those random Plat 100 with ambassadors which also make sense. After that, it's Plat any level that are returning guests followed by Plat 75. Plat 50...

Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50

It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.

Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".

For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
supatight80 likes this.
yeunganson is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 11:16 pm
  #36  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 30,959
Originally Posted by moulder3
Feel free to add to my list but here are just a few things SPG lost:

2. SPG Lifetime status wasn't equal to Marriott (finally changed after massive SPG upheaval)
I.e. - it wasn't lost, but I'll still list it under what "SPG lost"

Originally Posted by moulder3
3. Significant dilution of point value, now that programs have merged
Simply false as shown many times.


Originally Posted by moulder3
5. As of 2019, award categories blown to hell, causing massive devaluation.
Ditto

Originally Posted by moulder3
6. Suite upgrades no longer guaranteed at any SPG/Marriott property
Apparently also ditto

Originally Posted by moulder3
My guess is that we'll mostly move on to other programs like Hyatt now that top tier benefits of the new merged program are a joke.
Let us know how it is.

Last edited by CPRich; Aug 19, 2018 at 11:21 pm
CPRich is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 11:21 pm
  #37  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 30,959
Originally Posted by GoSh4rks
4. This hasn't changed. Check the new T&C, section 3.2.n. "No Blackout dates"
False.

"No Blackouts", which is what Marriott has had for many years, is not the same as SPG's "any standard room for sale can be redeemed".

Marriott's "No Blackouts" simply means that a property must offer award room(s) on every date. That could mean that 1 room is made available. Or 5. Or 100. But when the rooms allocated are taken, no more award nights are available, even though the standard rooms are still for sale. Available award nights are often sold out well in advance at popular vacation spots.

This is significantly different and, to me, the significant benefit loss from the old SPG program.
MSPeconomist likes this.
CPRich is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2018, 11:31 pm
  #38  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,956
Originally Posted by moulder3
My guess is that we'll mostly move on to other programs like Hyatt now that top tier benefits of the new merged program are a joke.
As that move would improve things for people like me, try not to let the "Do Not Disturb" placard hit you in the patootie on the way out!
kennycrudup is offline  
Old Aug 20, 2018, 12:40 am
  #39  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Marriott Ti/LTP
Posts: 1,328
Originally Posted by CPRich
False.

"No Blackouts", which is what Marriott has had for many years, is not the same as SPG's "any standard room for sale can be redeemed".

Marriott's "No Blackouts" simply means that a property must offer award room(s) on every date. That could mean that 1 room is made available. Or 5. Or 100. But when the rooms allocated are taken, no more award nights are available, even though the standard rooms are still for sale. Available award nights are often sold out well in advance at popular vacation spots.

This is significantly different and, to me, the significant benefit loss from the old SPG program.
If you had read my post at all, where I quoted the new T&C, or the actual new T&C itself, you will find that you are completely wrong.
GoSh4rks is offline  
Old Aug 21, 2018, 12:09 am
  #40  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,778
Originally Posted by supatight80
i suggest to:
1) get rid of credit card nights
2) get rid of that 10 meetings for 10$ for 10 nights or whatever they have on MR side
replace those credit card nights with free night certificate would be good to attract people to get the card and yet not making elite requirements "easier"
kaizen7 is offline  
Old Aug 21, 2018, 12:26 am
  #41  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,778
Originally Posted by yeunganson
I think the SPG team on the SPG/Marriott merge program is pushing towards increasing the link between number of nights and total revenue brought in. This is why I think they introduced the $20,000 spending threshold for Ambassadors. Now we know the highest "upgrade" priority are returning guests Platinum 100 with ambassadors (ie frequent travelers that not only have 100 nights but also spend 20,000 a year on hotels), it sounds totally fair. Then followed by those random Plat 100 with ambassadors which also make sense. After that, it's Plat any level that are returning guests followed by Plat 75. Plat 50...

Summary
- Ambassador returning guest
- Ambassador
- Returning guest (with plat status)
- 75
- 50

It's very fair too. Like my Plat 50 revisiting the hotel for the 10th time this year is going to beat the Plat 75 on his/her first visit. And I likely won't feel bitter if someone who spends $20,000 took the suite - just bad luck I happened to stay at a time with so many SPG/Marriott members with ambassadors.

Part of the root cause of all these Plat membership inflation is because it got easier in gaming the system. That means getting those 50/75 nights in cheaper and cheaper ways. So a clear fix would just follow the Plat 100 with ambassafor's lead and put spending thresholds. A $5000 spending for Plat 50 and $7500 for Plat 75 indexed for inflation in 100 increments. That results in about $100/night room rate (which we all pay much higher than that). This kills off most of the gaming for Plat level. People can game up to the Gold level. You're left with "meeting runs" that seems in sympathetic cases - like you 10/15 night away from next level and you spent way pass the "spending threshold".

For us former SPG members, that shouldn't make an impact at all because we normally do butt-in-bed nights anyways.
I can imagine the revenue requirements for ambassador tier is to make that tier impossible to earn if you frequently stay at $30 moxies or alofts.
you will need whooping 667 nights to reach 20k

I guess for MR, they can afford to have increased numbers of plts and plt premiers.
But for ambassador, since they will have to assign ambassador to those people who reach ambassador tier, MR prefer to limit the number by setting the revenue requirements.

As Bhrubin mention at other thread about ambassador, the ambassador service potentially provide better benefit if ou stay at higher end hotels (StR, RC, LuxCol) then MR sure think that those people who spends 100 nights at lower end of hotels wont lose much if they dont have ambassador.

Furthermore, leaked TC did mention that MR could invite people who didnt meet the requirements for ambassador service. I can guess MR might invite people who regularly stay at StR RC LuxCol hotels and spend more than 20k (significantly above maybe?) and yet still not reach 100 nights.
For sure MR dont want to lose these high spender customers.
kaizen7 is offline  
Old Aug 21, 2018, 6:35 am
  #42  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,165
IMO before the merger Ambassador was like Global Services before the CO/UA merger...existed alongside the 1Ks (the regular Platinums), but didn't necessarily infringe upon their benefits. Happy harmony.

Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.

I guess we will see...
UA-NYC is offline  
Old Aug 21, 2018, 12:27 pm
  #43  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
IMO before the merger Ambassador was like Global Services before the CO/UA merger...existed alongside the 1Ks (the regular Platinums), but didn't necessarily infringe upon their benefits. Happy harmony.

Post-merger, I could see Ambassador being more like new GS on the combined UA...truly play by a different set of rules, a lot of their benefits (early check-ins, suites, etc.) may come at the expense of the Plats/PPs.

I guess we will see...
The difference in GS pre/post merger (IMHO) was not only that GS played by different rules but they rapidly expanded who got GS aside from just people who spent a lot of money on full fare tickets. Big corporate customers got to hand out GS, "influential" people for corp accounts got comped GS...it adds up to the point that GS was such a large crowd they had to cut off benefits to any lower tier. So long as there aren't a ton of extra Ambassadors then us lowly PPs should be OK. I would guess the difference between Plat and PP will gradually become more pronounced than the difference between PP and Ambassador. We will indeed find out though...
boolean64 is offline  
Old Aug 21, 2018, 1:06 pm
  #44  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
Originally Posted by GoSh4rks
If you had read my post at all, where I quoted the new T&C, or the actual new T&C itself, you will find that you are completely wrong.
Well the new T&Cs do say that if a standard room is available for cash, it's available for points. I have just checked on a hotel i am trying to book for a saturday night stay. It's a residence inn and they have studio rooms available for sale for just saturday night so it's not a minimum night restriction that's causing this. But looking at the flexible date calendar, they have no points availability for any saturday night...even though they have points availability for every other night in september. Once things quiet down on the PP phone line, will call to test out their statement that if it's available for cash it's available for points. This seems like a pretty cut and dry test... will keep everyone posted.
boolean64 is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2018, 8:10 am
  #45  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SG
Programs: Marriott Plat Amb, oneworld Ruby
Posts: 132
I always used to give Marriott the benefit of the doubt, even back to the days of the Anbang bid, but I think I am now seeing their true colours for myself.

I travel to one city repeatedly for work. I stay at one legacy SPG hotel all the time, and stay elsewhere only when I can't get a room there. I have put through 90 nights there already this year (well, I would have except the integration is screwing things up and I am missing nine nights), 60+ in 2017 and 50+ in 2016. I must have racked up almost 50 stays at this hotel in the last three years (I stay 4-5 nights each time). As you can imagine, I have a wonderful relationship with staff and management: we see each other so often it would be awkward if we didn't.

The hotel has always reciprocated my loyalty, and has consistently upgraded me to a suite on every stay since I first qualified for Platinum in 2017. I used to enjoy doing an online check-in on the weekend and getting advance notice of my advance upgrade.

This coming week, my first stay there since the systems integration, I have not received any upgrade at all (well, it says "Club Room", but there's no difference between that and any standard room, except it comes with Club access).

Using the nifty new chat function, I asked the hotel if the Club Room status was final, or was there any chance of an upgrade to a suite. The duty manager replied yes, I have been allocated a Club Room, not a suite. Nothing about the hotel being sold out, nothing about no suite availability. So I asked him very nicely if I could please have a suite (my old SPG profile had a request for suite upgrades stickied to each booking), and I get some stupid pro forma response about "their utmost effort to provide you suite upgrade when available upon check-in".

I'm checking in tomorrow and will report back. I really hope this is just a bad coincidence timing-wise with the integration, but if this is the new attitude, I'm done with Starriott. If 50 stays and 200+ nights in one hotel in under three years can't win you recognition at that property, I think I'm justified in asking what will.
MSPeconomist and GalaxyChris like this.
HollyGlen is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.