Originally Posted by RogerD408
(Post 30068737)
My point was, there are/were two different programs under the Rewarding Events name, one dealt with events that included guest rooms so a meeting planner would get some credit for arranging the event and there was a second one that addressed people that needed just meeting space.
1) Will get 10 elite nights for the meeting. 2) Will get 3 pts/$, up to a max of $50,000 points per event. This applies to the meeting room and on related bookings (for related guest rooms, at least 10 guest rooms booked), the points are earned on: Guest rooms (regardless if the company or the guest pays), Meeting room rental,Food and beverage, Audiovisual, Any décor ordered by hotel per the FAQ provided on the existing program. These are part of the same page/same FAQ for rewarding events. It's two benefits/different earns in the same program (rewarding events).
Originally Posted by RogerD408
(Post 30068737)
Also, I'm not seeing where it says you will get the 10 nights only on the first meeting...
It does not say "only the first'", nor is any earn rate for elite nights specified explicitly for the second and subsequent meetings, except that it adds the SPG pro of 20 related room nights translating to 1 elite night for the planner, up to 20 elite nights per event this way. Thus, the potential ambiguity on this (as pointed out upthread). For the reasons I highlighted above (other easy non-stay ways to earn rooms being eliminated/greatly reduced, and the increasing appeal of cheap non-stay nights), I sincerely doubt that the second and further meetings each year will earn 10 elite nights like the first. This has not been conclusively confirmed in either by Marriott, yet and it is my perception. The main point of my reply to you above was that you posed the question: Why change rewarding events in the merged program?. My post gave reasons why, if I were Marriott, I would change the Rewarding Events. The way some people are using rewarding events now to chase lifetime status under old MR terms (in some cases, sub $60 meetings, resulting in buying elite nights at less than $6/elite night is evidence that there is incentive to use this program to cheaply accrue elite nights. (Note that I'm not saying the people doing this are doing anything wrong. Marriott currently offers a very generous benefit in Rewarding Events with the elite nights, and if I had not reached the old Lifetime Plat threshold of 750 nights already, with the merger and ending of old LTP/new LTPP qualification this year as grandfathered only status, I would be booking meetings under Rewarding Events to make up the gap too.)
Originally Posted by RogerD408
(Post 30068737)
I don't know if they will ever clear this up, but hope they do make some clarifications. We all will have our own opinion but the only thing that counts is what they do. Fortunately, I don't expect to make use of this benefit, so no skin in this game.
They will have to. I expect this will be clarified no later than the restoration of the MR website/reservation systems on August 18th (assuming the IT switchover on that date goes smoothly & as planned). |
@phltraveler, you have laid out your case about why you think Marriott should make the change and your interpretation of statements that makes you think there may be change. What you have not done is offer a single piece of proof that there will be a change. We will not know until Marriott announces the rules for the new program. The facts, nobody can remember which blogger started this rumor and the blogger has apparently taken the post down - nobody can find it now - give me pause.
It is not that the rumor might not be true, but it is important for our own integrity that we are clear about what is fact and what is rumor, even if the rumor has believably, so that FT remains a good source for information as opposed to a rumor mill. I have always relied on information posted here and hate to see posters caught up in what they think should happen being presented as a done deal. You were clear on this, but others have made statements stating the change will happen. BTW, linked is a flyer for Rewarding Events that has a 2010 copyright. Edition was new and the logo is there, but not AC, Delta, Gaylord, Protea or Moxy. It specifically mentions earning ten nights for the first meeting and nothing about additional meetings which we know continued to earn ten more nights each for at least seven or eight years. The ten years mention is not new. |
Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069040)
@phltraveler, you have laid out your case about why you think Marriott should make the change and your interpretation of statements that makes you think there may be change. What you have not done is offer a single piece of proof that there will be a change. We will not know until Marriott announces the rules for the new program. The facts, nobody can remember which blogger started this rumor and the blogger has apparently taken the post down - nobody can find it now - give me pause.
But both he and I both did offer that as evidence and indicated how that is different from the previous Marriott Reward wording. The current Marriott Rewards group/events terms and conditions do not articulate any difference for a "first" meeting as this new wording does. You don't accept that because it doesn't include the word "only" as you've indicated many times. We believe the "first" wording accomplishes the same intent as what you need to hear with "only." A blogger's rumor has nothing to do with his or my interpretation here. To me and him, it is perfectly obvious that the new program will provide ONLY the 10 elite nights for the FIRST meeting--and no meetings beyond that. You need only; we got the meaning with first. If it weren't as we are suggesting, it would have stated that you "Get 10 Elite Qualifying Nights when you book A meeting." It doesn't because Marriott is going to limit the 10 elite nights to just the FIRST meeting, not a meeting or any meeting. |
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 30069096)
On the contrary, @phltraveler did offer evidence: the New Loyalty Program Rewarding Events page at https://members.marriott.com/rewarding-events/.
BTW, here is the dictionary definition of first. Only is not one of the definitions. first fərst/ number
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Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069040)
@phltraveler, you have laid out your case about why you think Marriott should make the change and your interpretation of statements that makes you think there may be change. What you have not done is offer a single piece of proof that there will be a change. We will not know until Marriott announces the rules for the new program. The facts, nobody can remember which blogger started this rumor and the blogger has apparently taken the post down - nobody can find it now - give me pause.
The old Rewarding Events page stated that each event got ten nights and instant silver after your first meeting - which was a byproduct of the fact that every single meeting gave 10 nights and 10 nights was the qualification for Silver status. The new page specifically states that the next first meeting explicitly earns 10 nights, with no mention of subsequent. Is it omission because the second onwards earn no nights, separate from room bookings? Or just pointing out that you earned ten nights after your first meeting (technically true right now) and no changes? Only when new T&C come will we know.
Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069040)
It is not that the rumor might not be true, but it is important for our own integrity that we are clear about what is fact and what is rumor, even if the rumor has believably, so that FT remains a good source for information as opposed to a rumor mill. I have always relied on information posted here and hate to see posters caught up in what they think should happen being presented as a done deal. You were clear on this, but others have made statements stating the change will happen.
Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069040)
IBTW, linked is a flyer for Rewarding Events that has a 2010 copyright. Edition was new and the logo is there, but not AC, Delta, Gaylord, Protea or Moxy. It specifically mentions earning ten nights for the first meeting and nothing about additional meetings which we know continued to earn ten more nights each for at least seven or eight years. The ten years mention is not new.
As far as missing brands, your flyer comes from Marriott.com.au, and thus is targeted towards the Australian market. AC Hotels: No AC Hotels have ever existed in Australia; the first does not open in the country until 2020 in Melbourne. Agreement for Marriott to joint venture with AC Hotels in 2011, PDF is dated 2010. Delta Hotels: 36 locations across Canada + US, none in Australia. Was not acquired by Marriott until 2014, PDF dated 2010. Gaylord Hotels: None in Australia. Was not acquired by Marriott until 2012, PDF dated 2010. Protea: Marriott only acquired the brand in 2013, PDF dated 2010. Moxy: Brand was not introduced until 2013, PDF dated 2010. Separately, I would say that the communication with the merger seems less than ideal. The fact that these changes have not been adequately explained to the point where we're eight days away from the combined program and we're still confused as to how certain aspects of the rewards program will work in a little over a week is disheartening. |
Originally Posted by phltraveler
(Post 30069235)
As far as missing brands, your flyer comes from Marriott.com.au, and thus is targeted towards the Australian market.
And I appreciate your cautious, thoughtful approach to the potential rule change. |
Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069326)
And I appreciate your cautious, thoughtful approach to the potential rule change.
It's funny what you can find if you look hard enough online.
Originally Posted by New MR T&Cs
Effective in August 2018, the Marriott Rewards® Program, The Ritz-Carlton Rewards Program, and the Starwood Preferred Guest® Program (the “SPG Program”) (each a “Legacy Program”), that were previously operated by Marriott International, Inc. and its subsidiaries, including Marriott Rewards, LLC and Preferred Guest, Inc. (collectively, the “Company”) as three separate programs, will function as one unified program (hereinafter, the “Loyalty Program”) while keeping their separate names for the time being for certain limited purposes. [...]5. REWARDING EVENTS 5.1 Rewarding Events 5.1.a. Rewarding EventsSM (“Rewarding Events”) provides Points or Miles to eligible Loyalty Program Members who book and hold qualifying group meetings and events (“Qualifying Events” and individually, “Qualifying Event”) at Participating Properties. [...] 5.3 Earning [...] 5.3.d. Elite Night Credit. Members who hold Qualifying Events at Participating Properties also receive ten (10) Elite Night Credits for their first Qualifying Event, and then earn one (1) Elite Night Credit for every twenty (20) rooms booked and actualized, up to a maximum of twenty (20) Elite Night Credits per contract. EDIT: From another part, same page:
Originally Posted by New MR T&Cs
4.2 Elite Membership Requirements
4.2.a. Only nights personally stayed by and individually billed to an Elite Member at Participating Properties are credited toward the Elite Member’s Elite membership achievement and renewal thereof. Pursuant to section 1.4.e. Accounts may be combined to achieve Elite membership. [...] iv. When booking a qualifying group event or meeting with Rewarding Events, ten (10) Elite nights will be awarded to the Member for his/her first group, event or meeting, and thereafter, one (1) Elite Night Credit will be awarded for every twenty (20) rooms booked and actualized, up to a maximum of twenty (20) Elite Night Credits per contract. Points or Miles may be earned in addition to Elite Night Credits for Rewarding Events. |
Thanks, @phltraveler. Apparently, first does imply only, after all. |
Originally Posted by phltraveler
(Post 30069598)
Thanks for the civil discussion.
It's funny what you can find if you look hard enough online. That's the exact wording as it appears in the new T&Cs. That seems a little more definitive with the "First qualifying event" and the use of the word "then" for the subsequent statement, no? EDIT: From another part, same page:
Originally Posted by bhrubin
(Post 30069622)
Thanks, @phltraveler. Apparently, first does imply only, after all. |
Main reason to change it - since points are no longer a criterion for LT status, one could easily just do 5 meetings a year for $250, get your annual status, and one more year towards LT...lather, rinse, repeat
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Originally Posted by CJKatl
(Post 30069040)
@phltraveler, you have laid out your case about why you think Marriott should make the change and your interpretation of statements that makes you think there may be change..
They are getting rid of any credit card giving more than the new Gold status (which is not much more than Silver). They are getting rid of UA Gold status giving more than the new Gold status. They are getting rid of 2 different ways to earn more elite nights with credit cards (stacking 15 nights per year from multiple cards, and earning 1 elite night credit per $3k spend). They are getting rid of SPG's method of earning status through half as many stays as nights needed. Ie, I can't think of any other yearly major shortcut to new Platinum (or above) that they aren't getting rid of. Now, obviously, none of that proves that that they are getting rid of 10 elite nights for every meeting. But it does show that if they were to keep 10 elite nights for every meeting, it would be rather inconsistent of them. |
If "first" means "only", does it mean the first meeting each year or the first meeting, period?
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Originally Posted by phltraveler
(Post 30069598)
Thanks for the civil discussion.
It's funny what you can find if you look hard enough online. That's the exact wording as it appears in the new T&Cs. That seems a little more definitive with the "First qualifying event" and the use of the word "then" for the subsequent statement, no? EDIT: From another part, same page: |
Originally Posted by sdsearch
(Post 30070301)
Not just that. @phltraveler also pointed out that there is a big trend in everything Marriott to eliminate all yearly major "shortcuts" to "meaningful" elite status. (I say "yearly" to factor out one-time challenges.)
They are getting rid of any credit card giving more than the new Gold status (which is not much more than Silver). They are getting rid of UA Gold status giving more than the new Gold status. They are getting rid of 2 different ways to earn more elite nights with credit cards (stacking 15 nights per year from multiple cards, and earning 1 elite night credit per $3k spend). They are getting rid of SPG's method of earning status through half as many stays as nights needed. Ie, I can't think of any other yearly major shortcut to new Platinum (or above) that they aren't getting rid of. Now, obviously, none of that proves that that they are getting rid of 10 elite nights for every meeting. But it does show that if they were to keep 10 elite nights for every meeting, it would be rather inconsistent of them. A bit off topic, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if we had some double night stay credits arise from the major shift away from cheap night credits |
Originally Posted by phltraveler
(Post 30069598)
That's the exact wording as it appears in the new T&Cs.
Members.Marriott does not have "thereafter" in its description. If you choose to earn frequent flyer airline miles instead of points, all member tiers can earn a maximum of 20,000 miles (1 mile per $1 USD) per qualifying event.
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