What turns me off to (almost all) Courtyards (pre-COVID, obv.) is that the free coffee disappeared soon after the Bistro concept came onboard. All I ask for in the morning is a quick cup of decent coffee to get me to my next stop. I don't want to have to wait in line for someone to "craft" me a "Starbucks" beverage. Beyond that, it's got a bed and a toilet, so with no free coffee, there's no reason to stay there. Give me a FI or SHS, or bump it up to FS, and I'll grab a coffee out of the lounge.
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Originally Posted by JBKettle
(Post 33057665)
What turns me off to (almost all) Courtyards (pre-COVID, obv.) is that the free coffee disappeared soon after the Bistro concept came onboard. All I ask for in the morning is a quick cup of decent coffee to get me to my next stop. I don't want to have to wait in line for someone to "craft" me a "Starbucks" beverage.
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Originally Posted by fly2nrt
(Post 33053780)
I rarely stay at Courtyards because most of them are old dumps but currently at a newly built one and while it looks nice, I'm not sure what the point of this brand is anymore.
They are priced like full service Marriotts but built like limited service properties with none of the benefits that limited service properties provide. Room is small, no real elite bennies, no breakfast - there is a SYSCO "bistro" in the lobby I guess. I guess the model probably made sense when it was first introduced in the 80's so that business travelers weren't stuck at some HoJo in a podunk town but there are tons of better options nowadays. Not sure why this is still a thing. The two most popular brands in terms of hotel owner interest and market share (which is measured on how much the hotels can charge per room compared to their competitors) are 1) Residence Inn and 2) Courtyard. These are also the two most successful brands Marriott has. Not coincidentally, the two brands are disliked by Flyertalk Usually, when I am considering a Courtyard, the other hotels in the area where I need to be include Residence Inn, Hilton Garden Inn, Holiday Inn, maybe something like a Hyatt Place or Hotel Indigo. Sometimes a Townplace Suites, Fairfield Inn, etc. Of these I usually like Courtyards, but only if they are new. Grabbing a beer at the Bistro and working the lobby, sometimes there are amenities like pools, etc. Next, Hilton Garden Inn works for me. I would prefer Residence Inn if Marriott allowed for normal points earnings on the stays (often, Residence Inn is priced the highest of these) |
Originally Posted by Adelphos
(Post 33059029)
The two most popular brands in terms of hotel owner interest and market share (which is measured on how much the hotels can charge per room compared to their competitors) are 1) Residence Inn and 2) Courtyard. These are also the two most successful brands Marriott has. Not coincidentally, the two brands are disliked by Flyertalk.
Poking around the Marriott hotel developer brand web pages, year end 2020 posted data shows: CY @ 1,258 open properties / 272 pipeline properties, FI @ 1,132 open properties / 415 pipeline properties, RI @ 874 open properties / 243 pipeline properties, Marriott Hotels @ 585 open properties / 133 pipeline properties. For SPG brands, largest number are Sheratons with 442 open properties / 113 pipeline properties. For the open properties, the developer pages are noting 7600+ properties. That would put CY @ 16.5%, FI @ 15%, RI @ 11.5% with Marriott Hotels and Sheratons falling below 10%. With the number of pipeline properties, it appears that developers are voting for FIs as their future investments. David |
Originally Posted by Adelphos
(Post 33059029)
Usually, when I am considering a Courtyard, the other hotels in the area where I need to be include Residence Inn, Hilton Garden Inn, Holiday Inn, maybe something like a Hyatt Place or Hotel Indigo. Sometimes a Townplace Suites, Fairfield Inn, etc. Of these I usually like Courtyards, but only if they are new. Grabbing a beer at the Bistro and working the lobby, sometimes there are amenities like pools, etc. Next, Hilton Garden Inn works for me. I would prefer Residence Inn if Marriott allowed for normal points earnings on the stays (often, Residence Inn is priced the highest of these)
(Hyatt is pretty much a non-entity in many of the places I have to go.) What's interesting to me is how cheap-feeling and downscale the Hilton Garden Inn brand has become over the past 10 years. When I first started staying at HGIs, they were generally new build properties that seemed to be much smaller versions of Hiltons. Now, rather than a smaller, slightly downscaled Hilton an HGI is typically a bigger, slightly upscaled Hampton Inn. Hilton has really cheapened the HGI brand. |
Originally Posted by DELee
(Post 33059104)
So the 2018 MR pre-merger data shows the top four brands in terms of number of properties as: CY (22%/1174), FI (19%/969), RI (15%/787), Marriott Hotels (11%/568).
Poking around the Marriott hotel developer brand web pages, year end 2020 posted data shows: CY @ 1,258 open properties / 272 pipeline properties, FI @ 1,132 open properties / 415 pipeline properties, RI @ 874 open properties / 243 pipeline properties, Marriott Hotels @ 585 open properties / 133 pipeline properties. For SPG brands, largest number are Sheratons with 442 open properties / 113 pipeline properties. For the open properties, the developer pages are noting 7600+ properties. That would put CY @ 16.5%, FI @ 15%, RI @ 11.5% with Marriott Hotels and Sheratons falling below 10%. With the number of pipeline properties, it appears that developers are voting for FIs as their future investments. David |
Originally Posted by DenverBrian
(Post 33061543)
Likely because there just aren't many parcels of land that make sense for any kind of hotel in 2021- they're already taken up by various brands. FI has also significantly upscaled their build look and feel - a new FI room is virtually identical to a new CY room.
And a FI is still less sucky than a CY. David |
Originally Posted by DELee
(Post 33061801)
Right now there's a whole bunch of unused land parcels all over the world.
My point was that CY had a head start on FI, so there are more existing CYs than FIs, and the ones built first are usually on the most profitable chunks of land. As you saturate the hotel market, there are fewer and smaller choice parcels of land upon which to build hotels in areas of significant business and leisure traffic. You can easily build as many hotels as you want in, say, Springfield, Colorado. Land's dirt cheap. |
Originally Posted by JBKettle
(Post 33057665)
What turns me off to (almost all) Courtyards (pre-COVID, obv.) is that the free coffee disappeared soon after the Bistro concept came onboard. All I ask for in the morning is a quick cup of decent coffee to get me to my next stop. I don't want to have to wait in line for someone to "craft" me a "Starbucks" beverage. Beyond that, it's got a bed and a toilet, so with no free coffee, there's no reason to stay there. Give me a FI or SHS, or bump it up to FS, and I'll grab a coffee out of the lounge.
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Originally Posted by fliesdelta
(Post 33062065)
I regularly stay at a couple of Courtyards in the DC area, and there's always an in-room coffee machine. Does this not qualify for your free coffee requirement?
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Originally Posted by fliesdelta
(Post 33062065)
I regularly stay at a couple of Courtyards in the DC area, and there's always an in-room coffee machine. Does this not qualify for your free coffee requirement?
Coffee aside, I don't mind CY's. My pecking order is typically FI -> SHS -> CY -> RI - > TPS. While in theory SHS is better than FI, there are more new build FI's and a lot of long in the tooth SHS's. So in practice FI tends to be better than SHS. RI and TPS have reduced points earning or would be ranked higher. Full service is great when it is available (MI or Renn). Don't like Sheraton too many old, tired properties and the lack of a lounge at the Westin's I have been at largely negates the benefits of full service. Other legacy SPG brands I haven't tried. Each to their own... --Jon |
Originally Posted by fliesdelta
(Post 33062065)
I regularly stay at a couple of Courtyards in the DC area, and there's always an in-room coffee machine. Does this not qualify for your free coffee requirement?
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Originally Posted by Jon Maiman
(Post 33062152)
Coffee aside, I don't mind CY's. My pecking order is typically FI -> SHS -> CY -> RI - > TPS. While in theory SHS is better than FI, there are more new build FI's and a lot of long in the tooth SHS's.
David |
I've had some nice CY stays in Prague and Stockholm.
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When I return to Toronto to visit family and friends (after migrating to the UK in 2008), I often stay at the Courtyard Toronto Downtown. It is usually much cheaper than any of the other central properties, and is located right on the subway line. The lack of service doesn't bother me, as if I'm visiting Toronto I'm out with friends or family most nights so really just using the hotel as a conveniently located bed. Though if any of the full service properties are priced similarly to the Courtyard, I'd plump for those.
And anytime I stay at a Courtyard anywhere, I don't buy anything from the Bistro. Rather head out to a local grocery or convenience store for snacks / drinks / other sundries. |
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