RogerD408

As stated many times by the Lurkers, the online system does not represent true availability, especially for upgrades. They may have bookings for all existing rooms or already blocked the suites for other upgrades. They may have loaded more rooms than available to cover potential no-shows or last minute cancellations, another common practice in the industry. Only the property knows what is truly available and what is not. People need to stop trying to use the web to show failure of the property providing upgrades.

BillBurn

The exact program language is "Platinum Elite Members and above receive a complimentary upgrade to the best available room subject to availability for the entire length of stay at the time of check-in." So the issue here is the "best available room" language. That's why I checked the hotel inventory on the app to confirm that the upgrade I received was in fact not to the best available room.

@hockeyinsider and others on the board have been active in trying to get Marriott (and its properties) to honor the "best available room" part of the upgrade benefit so that's why I posted this data point as it's clear that Essex House didn't follow the program benefits in this case. The sentiment among some members is that if we don't hold properties accountable to the actual policy of "best available room" they will continue to assign lower level rooms.

As an aside, given the large number of Platinum and above elites I think that this is most likely an impossible benefit for most properties to deliver on every night, so my guess is few if any properties actually religiously adhere to this benefit. I guess the issue for Ambassador elites is that theoretically we should be first in line for upgrades, but it's not clear that this is in fact the case.

Personally I would be in favor of an airline style waitlist for upgrades where there was much more transparency and the order was determined by status, but my guess is that is never going happen given the nature of the hotel industry. Until then you can either accept what the whims of the hotel's front desk offer you, try to have your Ambassador fight to get you to the top of the upgrade line or be willing to fight at check-in and escalate the matter until either the hotel caves in or you send a formal complaint to Marriott.

BillBurn

I know there can be differences between Marriott's reservation system and the individual property management systems but when they are showing every category of suite, including Jr Suites available, it's a very good bet that there is plenty of inventory available. In my case, they clearly had suites available, that's why the front desk clerk called for approval. Like seat availability with Expert Flyer, the Marriott website is not 100% accurate but it's generally pretty good and the only tool we have available to keep properties honest.

Also one point of clarification, my understanding from what the lurkers have stated is that upgrade availability differs from room availability in the case of SNAs because properties are allowed to limit the number of rooms that can be subject to SNAs. Check-in upgrades are supposed to be based on general availability period.

MePlatPremier

RogerD408

Yes, there is a difference, but the same applies to what the web says and what is actually available for upgrades. Many properties pre-block upgrades before guest arrival and I do believe that is in violation of the T&Cs that state availability at time of check in. We have no way of knowing for sure, but it could very well be all upgrades had been assigned and you fell below the line. I have been upgraded many times, but a few times I've found gifts in the room addressed to someone else (wine, snacks, candies). My guess is they will not be getting their gift when they arrive.

BillBurn

Yes, that's a good point. I would readily accept such an explanation if offered by the hotel.

There certainly are a lot of situations that could explain the difference in their favor but as I said website availability is really the only and best tool we have for judging availability outside of just taking the front desk's word for it and unfortunately there are countless stories on this forum of members being verbally told "there are no upgrades available" only to have one miraculously appear when they escalate the matter (@hockeyinsider is a great example of this).

hockeyinsider

Except the applicable upgrade language doesn't limit the upgrade only to a "room." It specifically includes suites. And I quote: "Platinum Elite Members and above receive a complimentary upgrade to the best available room subject to availability for the entire length of stay at the time of check-in. Complimentary upgrade includes suites, rooms with desirable views, rooms on high floors, corner rooms, rooms with special amenities or rooms on Executive Floors."

Marriott has confirmed the intent of the upgrade benefit is for elites to get a suite if a suite is available. Look at the incident several months ago with the J.W. Marriott in Costa Rica.

The bottom line is every Marriott booking channel said they had suites available. You could have booked one if you wanted to do so. I don't for a second believe that all the suites were booked or unavailable. Marriott's inventory can't be wrong all the time. Especially at Essex House, which I believe is managed by Marriott. I might understand some random property managed by a third-party management company as I suppose their in-house sales office could monkey around in the system or have suites blocked out. I know this is or was the case at a couple of Marriott's flagship Marriott brand properties in the Detroit area. The suites were only bookable through the property's sales office. But at a Marriott-managed property only Marriott is selling rooms.

When I stayed at Essex House in 2017 they told me they average 75 platinums per night. To clarify, that was legacy platinum in legacy Marriott Rewards. Who knows how many ambassadors the number is in the new program. With that said, this property has a reasonable number of suites. This isn't a property with only one suite. It also has lots of premium, non-suite rooms. I know my Central Park view room had a more premium view than my colleague who had a side on the side of the building.

I would have had no shame in escalating this matter to the operations director or front office manager. I also would have expressed my disappointment to my ambassador. At the very minimum, there had to have been a non-suite room with a better view than what you had, especially since they Marriott was showing availability.

What would the property have done if you booked one of the several suites that was still available for booking? The Renaissance Aruba tried playing this game with me in 2017. I was there for an event with a contract that guaranteed both a one-category upgrade and an upgrade to the best suite available for myself and two colleagues. They refused to upgrade all of us, claiming none of the suites were available. I made a booking in the lobby on the spot for a suite and after several hours of back-and-forth with the sales staff, both at the property and in Marriott's sales office, we managed to get the suites. The J.W. Marriott Los Cabos did the same thing. Needless to say, neither I nor my groups have been back to either property.

C17PSGR

With over 2500 nights, I've not found the slightest evidence that there is an "inventory" issue when suites are shown on line. To the contrary, when I've politely pushed the issue after being told no, one has often miraculously appeared. Or, I've been told its available but they won't upgrade (the SPG "standard" suite game, the Mexico we only upgrade one category game). To the contrary, the inventory on the website is often accurate. For example, I had a recent three day stay where I could see a suite was available on night 1 and night 3. I asked at check in and they confirmed what I saw.

I don't have a problem preupgrading Ambassador level or repeat guests. I also recognize it's easier to upgrade on a single night than multiple nights. The SNA program is unfortunately a downgrade for those of us who were legacy Plat Premiers or now Ambassador since I think hotels are going to prioritize those or be confused that its the only way for a suite upgrade. I also keep in mind that someone might actually pay $3000 a night at the JW Essex although they've given me a couple of greet suites overlooking Central Park before. But my suite upgrade rate has definitely increased since following HI's approach!

ethernal

Right or wrong, there is some nuance here based on the length of stay. There is a difference between "Available" in the sense that you could book a room versus "Available" in the sense that they don't believe they can sell the room. In a hypothetical situation, if you have a 5-night stay and there is only 1 suite available for the length of booking, I should not reasonably expect to get that upgrade. Revenue management would say that the room could likely be sold for at least one night over the duration of the stay.

Obviously the issue here is that if you don't have a hard-and-fast rule about guaranteeing an upgrade if a room is available for booking (which is NOT what the terms and conditions say - they say "available" and then do not define "available" anywhere in the T&Cs leaving the definition up to the property) is that hotels then have complete carte blanche to say "well, there is a 0.001% chance that all 47 of our suites will get booked during a portion of your stay, therefore they are not available."

hockeyinsider

At 2 p.m. perhaps, but not at 10:30 p.m. when BillBurn says he arrived at the property. Or not at 4 p.m. in Aruba when the last flights from the mainland United States have arrived for the day.

kaizen7

I believe the online inventory capable to show the actual inventory in real time.
They might put more inventory than actual inventory for lower cat rooms or 2nd lowest cat rooms, but not suites.
Its easier to overbook those lower cats room as you can just upgrade the guest. while overbooked suites would be harder to upgrade.

And for no upgrading elite members, I think if the member book lowest cat room, its very hard to believe that the hotel dont have anything better than that unless they really running 100% capacity. Fill every rooms and suites to the max.

damon88

kaizen7

For me, SNA is quite a disappointment as well.
Starting from some properties are not participating, and also the current issue of not able to apply SNA on prepaid bookings.

adunker

Has anyone got confirmation in the app ahead of time about a complimentary "Ambassador Elite Upgrade". Never seen this before, was a hotel I did in-app in check in for.



Also, update on this. The suite nights have been successfully redeposited, just received the email from Marriott Bonvoy. Looked automated and professional, so I'm guessing this isn't too uncommon "AWARD REISSUED. We always want your experience with Marriott Bonvoy™ to exceed your expectations, so we have reissued your Suite Night Awards™ to your account."

C17PSGR

Here's an easy example

Last month, I stayed at a legacy Marriott property (Marriott Waikiki) where I have probably spent 100-150 nights over the years. On almost every stay, they have upgraded me to the ocean front junior suite as a legacy Plat Premier. This time they didn't and apologetically explained that the SNA program makes it harder to upgrade Ambassadors since they clear several days in advance and they had given the suites away to the SNA requesters.

So here is a hotel that follows the rules, treats repeat guests/top elites very well, but already gave away the suites to SNA's. For someone who spends 125 nights a year on the road, that's a clear downgrade. Before SNA's, I would have had a suite. Now I lose out unless I use an SNA. I had a similar experience with an APEC legacy property that normally upgrades me to suites as a repeat guest/legacy Plat Premier where I was initially told they would give a suite if I used an SNA. I said I didn't want to use an SNA and said I wanted the suite upgrade provided under the Marriott APEC policy -- and they provided it.

But that's consistent with the legacy SPG approach which was more egalitarian and just had a very low threshold for its top tier. I realize the SNA program is a positive thing for someone who hits the 50 nights and wants to take the family on vacation. It's a negative thing, however, for those of us who are on the road 100+ nights a year. I'd be happy if SNA's were dropped.