Let’s talk about alternatives to the SPG Amex after the massive Marriott devaluation
Jul 18, 2018, 4:27 pm
#436
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
This holds true only if you value the credit card as a hotel credit card. But many SPG Amex holders used the card for the lucrative airline transfer rate. And Marriott has made the devaluation crystal clear when it comes to earning 2 point per dollar vs 3 points per dollar spent. If you are someone who values the SPG Amex for airline miles, you are almost better off going with an actual airline partner. At least you'll get dollar for dollar points to miles. So $30K spend will most likely equal 30K miles versus 25K miles with Marriott.
Now what...$20,000 spent turns in 1/3 rd fewer miles times a 25% bonus, or only 16,666 miles?
On this basis, all the airline programs where $1x spent = 1 mile are better, and I recommend Alaska Airline for it's low-ish redemption rates (although the loss of AF and the increased rates for Emirates hurt).
Jul 18, 2018, 4:46 pm
#437
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Jolla, CA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, Lifetime Titanium, Delta Plat, Hilton Diamond , Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,615
I do have to disagree with that just because that's not the real redemption value. If you booked a standard room and got upgraded then the value of the points was the cost of the standard room; you would have gotten the same upgrade if you'd booked the standard room in cash. 
You are right of course- the St Regis would have only been 2.8 and the W 2.1.
Jul 18, 2018, 4:50 pm
#438
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
+1.....If I were a betting man I would agree that Chase didn't want the AMEX card to be a better option on everyday spend and they had the upper hand! AMEX had to probably agree or loose Marriott all together.
I've had the SPG AMEX for as long as I can remember but it will be a sock drawer card (along with the Chase MR I just applied for to get the 100k)...come August! I will only use them for SPG/MR stays but everything else will go on another card. Sad really since there was a time when I almost wore my numbers out on my old SPG AMEX card.
I'm finishing up Lifetime Platinum this year and then will likely play the free agent card in 2019 picking whatever chain has the best property, for the best price and in the best location for each trip. SPG/MR will be covered with LTP and HH will be covered by Gold on the Ascend card. With Hyatt, Radisson and IHG I will have pretty low status which won't get me much but if the hotel, price and location work they will get my $ as well.
I've had the SPG AMEX for as long as I can remember but it will be a sock drawer card (along with the Chase MR I just applied for to get the 100k)...come August! I will only use them for SPG/MR stays but everything else will go on another card. Sad really since there was a time when I almost wore my numbers out on my old SPG AMEX card.
I'm finishing up Lifetime Platinum this year and then will likely play the free agent card in 2019 picking whatever chain has the best property, for the best price and in the best location for each trip. SPG/MR will be covered with LTP and HH will be covered by Gold on the Ascend card. With Hyatt, Radisson and IHG I will have pretty low status which won't get me much but if the hotel, price and location work they will get my $ as well.
Jul 18, 2018, 5:03 pm
#439
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
Not easy to do under any program.
But compares SPG v. Hyatt v. Marriott (old vs. new):
Under prior program 30k SPG = 30k Hyatt in the sense that 30k was enough for 1N at the top properties. So $1 charged on SPG had the same value as $1 charged on Hyatt (though I think Hyatt did not have the 25% discount on 5 nights). Marriott top properties were 45k points (70k if you count RC) so $1 charged on Marriott card had much less value - in fact made no sense to use a Marriott card once points could be freely transferred with SPG.
Under new program $30k on SPG Amex = 60k Marriott points, which won't be enough for top properties in 2019. But 30k still gets top level room on Hyatt.
Now compare $30k on 2% cash back card = $600. If your room rate (with tax) is <$600 you are better off buying the room (and earning the points). Obviously won't work in peak season in Aspen and Venice but there are many times when $500 will buy a room at Park Hyatt Tokyo or NYC properties. Just sayin...
I defer on valuing the option for airline transfer - just not of interest to me as I have plenty of miles and never enough hotel points.
But compares SPG v. Hyatt v. Marriott (old vs. new):
Under prior program 30k SPG = 30k Hyatt in the sense that 30k was enough for 1N at the top properties. So $1 charged on SPG had the same value as $1 charged on Hyatt (though I think Hyatt did not have the 25% discount on 5 nights). Marriott top properties were 45k points (70k if you count RC) so $1 charged on Marriott card had much less value - in fact made no sense to use a Marriott card once points could be freely transferred with SPG.
Under new program $30k on SPG Amex = 60k Marriott points, which won't be enough for top properties in 2019. But 30k still gets top level room on Hyatt.
Now compare $30k on 2% cash back card = $600. If your room rate (with tax) is <$600 you are better off buying the room (and earning the points). Obviously won't work in peak season in Aspen and Venice but there are many times when $500 will buy a room at Park Hyatt Tokyo or NYC properties. Just sayin...
I defer on valuing the option for airline transfer - just not of interest to me as I have plenty of miles and never enough hotel points.
So, for $30,000, now I'd rather get 30,000 airline miles which can be redeemed for $1200-$1800 or even more for certain first class awards, and the question is what program has the best redemption value...so far I think Alaska...but I'm open to others.
My priority is biz and first int'l awards.
Jul 18, 2018, 5:13 pm
#440
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
But you miss that $30,000 can get you 37,500 airline miles which can redeemed at 4-6 cents per mile (or more) which is worth $1750 - $2250, not a measly $600.
So, for $30,000, now I'd rather get 30,000 airline miles which can be redeemed for $1200-$1800 or even more for certain first class awards, and the question is what program has the best redemption value...so far I think Alaska...but I'm open to others.
My priority is biz and first int'l awards.
So, for $30,000, now I'd rather get 30,000 airline miles which can be redeemed for $1200-$1800 or even more for certain first class awards, and the question is what program has the best redemption value...so far I think Alaska...but I'm open to others.
My priority is biz and first int'l awards.
Jul 18, 2018, 5:26 pm
#441
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
No, I'll never use Alaska mile on Alaska. I'll use then for 70k first class on Cathay, Japan, or BA. Or, maybe LH...perhaps even business class on HU for 50K because they fly nonstop from Boston to PEK or PVG, allowing a topover and oward travel in China/Asia.
Yes, SPG offers a much broader range of airline conversions than Alaska, but Alaska is pretty good.
Yes, SPG offers a much broader range of airline conversions than Alaska, but Alaska is pretty good.
Jul 18, 2018, 7:17 pm
#442
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TUL
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; Marriott Titanium; Hilton Diamond; Hyatt Explorist; Vistana 5* Elite; Nat'l Exec Elite
Posts: 6,177
Jul 18, 2018, 9:44 pm
#443
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,715
The real loss here is that those 37500 airline miles were also your choice among dozens of airlines. With the airline credit card you have to commit to just one. That said, as is much-discussed further up this thread, the Chase Freedom Unlimited plus CSP or CSR gives you the ability to earn 1.5 airline miles per dollar on everything, for a limited set of airlines, but at least you're not committing to just one. Or similar setups in Amex Membership Rewards-land could also be attractive, depending how you feel about the specific lineups of airline partners for each of Chase and Amex. If you have specific need for Alaska miles then the Alaska credit card could be worth it, but you're putting a lot of eggs in one basket that way.
Anyway, come August Chase UR is a better option for air miles as $1 charge = 1 point in a dozen air programs; SPG/Marriott $1 charge = .82 point in a dozen programs - inferior even after adding the 25% transfer bonus. Welcome to devaluation country.
Last edited by Boraxo; Jul 18, 2018 at 9:54 pm
Jul 18, 2018, 10:48 pm
#444
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 50
starwood fee / free night
I guess several people already chimed in about this too, but I called AMEX today as I was just billed the $95 annual fee on July 2. They said since the free night goes into effect Aug 1, I won't get my free night until I renew next year on July 2, 2019. In effect, I pay the fee now and miss out basically for the next year. Not sure if there is any way around this.
Last edited by mdcubsfan; Jul 18, 2018 at 11:18 pm
Jul 18, 2018, 11:11 pm
#445
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Former UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 576
don't know if you got an answer to this, but I called AMEX today as I was just billed the $95 annual fee on July 2. They said since the free night goes into effect Aug 1, I won't get my free night until I renew next year on July 2, 2019. In effect, I pay the fee now and miss out basically for the next year. Not sure if there is any way around this.
Jul 19, 2018, 7:58 pm
#446
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 50
After reading through many threads and posts, I figure with the Marriott Starwood changes this is what I'll do going forward - please chime in if anyone has any better ideas....
Main spending cards for personal and business have always been the AMEX Starwood personal and business, for over 20 and 10 years respectively.
Will keep Starwood personal just for the free night and for nostalgia. Thinking of cancelling the Starwood business (don't see a reason to keep it)
Thinking of getting AMEX Starwood Luxury and hitting 75K spend to get platinum status for the year and so I can effectively use my stash of starwood points to get upgrades, etc. (Someone else mentioned Ritz card as similar way to get bonus 2 nights for first time sign up and the Platinum via spending)
Will apply for new Chase Sapphire Reserve and Chase Ink Business Unlimited and put all of my spending on these cards.
Already have a decent stash of Starwood points but no UR points, so will start to use those UR points to expand hotel options when we travel.
Main spending cards for personal and business have always been the AMEX Starwood personal and business, for over 20 and 10 years respectively.
Will keep Starwood personal just for the free night and for nostalgia. Thinking of cancelling the Starwood business (don't see a reason to keep it)
Thinking of getting AMEX Starwood Luxury and hitting 75K spend to get platinum status for the year and so I can effectively use my stash of starwood points to get upgrades, etc. (Someone else mentioned Ritz card as similar way to get bonus 2 nights for first time sign up and the Platinum via spending)
Will apply for new Chase Sapphire Reserve and Chase Ink Business Unlimited and put all of my spending on these cards.
Already have a decent stash of Starwood points but no UR points, so will start to use those UR points to expand hotel options when we travel.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:49 am
#448
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: SPG, AA, UAL, Hyatt, Amex Plat
Posts: 38
Agreed. I've thought about making the play for Plat that way but the opportunity cost is real for me at least. I can make the $75k easily in a year but I don't have so much spend (no manufactured or business) that I wouldn't be going more or less "all-in" on that card and the lost points is just too big (i.e. to get to $75k easily each year I couldn't put all my travel/dining spend on a CSR where the return is SO much better).
Jul 20, 2018, 2:54 pm
#449
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,179
I realize this may be of limited value (it only applies to the first $15,000 of unbonused spend) but there is a fair bit of buzz in the Hyatt forum about the new WOH (World of Hyatt) Chase card. For $15,000 of spend you get 15,000 Hyatt points plus a cert for a category 1-4 hotel (worth up to 15,000 more points). So essentially two Hyatt points per dollar rather than two Marriott points per dollar. And Hyatt's category 4 hotels cover just about every major city except NYC (Manhattan) and London. Not for those looking for aspirational properties and not a true solution for those spending many tens of thousands of dollars annually but a possible option for those of us who are looking for something to replace the Starwood SPG card for lower amounts of annual unbonused spend. And no forex fee unlike most cashback cards.
Jul 20, 2018, 7:49 pm
#450
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PIE, HPN, SBH
Programs: UA GS, DL Di, AA Plat, Hyatt Glb
Posts: 80
After lurking here for months in preparation for the death of our beloved SPG AX, home of all of our non-bonus spend for the last 15 years, we have decided to go with Alliant CU 2.5-3% cash back card for USD charges and Chase UA 1.5x Club for non-USD charges (really only worth 450 fee if you need UA club access), as Alliant does not pay cash back on non-USD spend per T&Cs.
For bonus spend, the status quo continues:
CSR 3x for dining, non-air travel exp
AX-PR Gold 2x MR for groceries and 3x gas
AX-Platinum for 5x MR for air and hotels booked via AX (ie not 4 nights or more)
Special shout out to the Citi Prestige for fourth night free (but that's all we use it for), which after tax usually comes out to 0.85/4 nights free.
For bonus spend, the status quo continues:
CSR 3x for dining, non-air travel exp
AX-PR Gold 2x MR for groceries and 3x gas
AX-Platinum for 5x MR for air and hotels booked via AX (ie not 4 nights or more)
Special shout out to the Citi Prestige for fourth night free (but that's all we use it for), which after tax usually comes out to 0.85/4 nights free.
