Let’s talk about alternatives to the SPG Amex after the massive Marriott devaluation
Jun 19, 2018, 6:20 am
#376
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 413
I agree that TPG overvalues UR points (as well as some other currencies IMO). But, UR points are clearly worth at least 1.5 cents each if you hold the CSR since you can do a direct redemption against cash values at that price. Whether you want to push a bit higher than that depends how much you value the various transfer options.
For spend at Marriott properties, I think the Marriott or SPG card at 6x is still probably a bit better than the CSR, but it can vary. When SPG was independent and the choice was 3 UR points vs 2 SPG points, it was a close call, since SPG points (prior to having the 1:3 transfer to Marriott option) were worth somewhere around 2-2.5 cents each, vs. 1.5+ cents each for the CSR. Assuming new Marriott points remain similar to current Marriott points in being worth around 0.8ish cents each (a value TPG uses which I think is about fair, though I could see an argument that it's too high), then 6 Marriott points would be equal to 3 UR points if you valued UR points at 1.6 cents each. Either one is a fairly good option though, and in part the answer may depend on how rich you are between the two currencies at any given point in time.
The AA card question is similar. In theory 3 UR points should be worth more than 2 AA miles (which I believe is what your AA card gives you on AA spend?). 3 UR points can be converted, for example, to 3 UA miles, and even if you think AA miles are worth more than UA miles, I don't think they're worth 50% more. But it also depends how rich you are in each program, and what specific awards you may have on your radar -- if you really want to fly Cathay Pacific then 2 AA miles may be a better way to get there than 3 UR points (you could transfer UR points to BA and redeem for Cathay via BA, but BA charges many more miles than AA on most longhaul trips, and BA also charges higher fees).
And of course, don't forget that if you buy an AA ticket using the CSR, you'll still earn the miles for flying the AA flight, you just won't earn the extra 2 AA miles per dollar for the charge. So if you fly AA fairly regularly you may find you earn enough miles from the actual flying that you're happy with that and prefer to put the charge on the CSR.
Arguably, though it is counterintuitive, if you really want to continue using the AA card, it might make more sense to do it for non-bonus spend categories -- no matter what valuation you put on both currencies, 1 UR point vs 1 AA mile is going to be a closer call than 3 UR points vs 2 AA miles.
For spend at Marriott properties, I think the Marriott or SPG card at 6x is still probably a bit better than the CSR, but it can vary. When SPG was independent and the choice was 3 UR points vs 2 SPG points, it was a close call, since SPG points (prior to having the 1:3 transfer to Marriott option) were worth somewhere around 2-2.5 cents each, vs. 1.5+ cents each for the CSR. Assuming new Marriott points remain similar to current Marriott points in being worth around 0.8ish cents each (a value TPG uses which I think is about fair, though I could see an argument that it's too high), then 6 Marriott points would be equal to 3 UR points if you valued UR points at 1.6 cents each. Either one is a fairly good option though, and in part the answer may depend on how rich you are between the two currencies at any given point in time.
The AA card question is similar. In theory 3 UR points should be worth more than 2 AA miles (which I believe is what your AA card gives you on AA spend?). 3 UR points can be converted, for example, to 3 UA miles, and even if you think AA miles are worth more than UA miles, I don't think they're worth 50% more. But it also depends how rich you are in each program, and what specific awards you may have on your radar -- if you really want to fly Cathay Pacific then 2 AA miles may be a better way to get there than 3 UR points (you could transfer UR points to BA and redeem for Cathay via BA, but BA charges many more miles than AA on most longhaul trips, and BA also charges higher fees).
And of course, don't forget that if you buy an AA ticket using the CSR, you'll still earn the miles for flying the AA flight, you just won't earn the extra 2 AA miles per dollar for the charge. So if you fly AA fairly regularly you may find you earn enough miles from the actual flying that you're happy with that and prefer to put the charge on the CSR.
Arguably, though it is counterintuitive, if you really want to continue using the AA card, it might make more sense to do it for non-bonus spend categories -- no matter what valuation you put on both currencies, 1 UR point vs 1 AA mile is going to be a closer call than 3 UR points vs 2 AA miles.
Though the catch is, you don't earn any status night credits if you don't book directly.
Jun 19, 2018, 6:24 am
#377
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 413
Does anyone know why Amex hobbles their cards this way? Similarly, their new Hilton cards have category bonuses that only work in the USA. Chase's category bonuses work internationally. I don't understand why Amex is making the choice to reduce the usefulness of their co-branded travel cards by making them not nearly as valuable to those who travel.
I've heard when AMEX first roll out the new cards, some hiltons in other country don't even take AMEX, which makes it dumb to have an hilton co-branded card that doesn't take it's form of payment. Hilton did a press release and was eventually rolling out to have all of it's hotel chain to offer AMEX as a form of payment by the end of the year world wide.
Jul 3, 2018, 10:19 am
#378
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 107
Just wanted to post that my initial experience with Chase Sapphire Reserve has been a good one. I haven't received my statement yet but my "rewards at my next statement" is already listed at 66,000+ points. Great that the 50K bonus points are already showing up, and surprised how many places are listed as restaurants. I already received my $300 in travel reimbursement. Traveling to Europe next week and really like that Visa is accepted everywhere compared to AmEx.
Pretty impressed so far and we'll have to say $450 well spent!
Pretty impressed so far and we'll have to say $450 well spent!
Jul 3, 2018, 10:35 am
#379
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 48
Just wanted to post that my initial experience with Chase Sapphire Reserve has been a good one. I haven't received my statement yet but my "rewards at my next statement" is already listed at 66,000+ points. Great that the 50K bonus points are already showing up, and surprised how many places are listed as restaurants. I already received my $300 in travel reimbursement. Traveling to Europe next week and really like that Visa is accepted everywhere compared to AmEx.
Pretty impressed so far and we'll have to say $450 well spent!
Pretty impressed so far and we'll have to say $450 well spent!
Jul 3, 2018, 6:07 pm
#380
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Former UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 576
Are you expecting to receive a bonus from both the Chase Sapphire Reserve and the Chase Sapphire Preferred card? My understanding is that you can only get one "Sapphire" bonus in 24 months.
Jul 3, 2018, 6:18 pm
#381
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 48
I sort of assumed that was the point of the csr/csp double dip, but i guess i dont know for sure? I hope so.
Jul 4, 2018, 11:16 pm
#382
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Former UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 576
Limiting bonus
https://www.asksebby.com/blog/2017/6/25/the-best-credit-card-system-for-maximizing-ultimate-reward-points-and-free-flights-the-chase-trifecta-2017
Last edited by Explore SE Asia; Jul 4, 2018 at 11:24 pm
Jul 5, 2018, 5:36 am
#383
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SFO/YYZ
Programs: AC 25K, AS MVP Gold, BA Bronze, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,455
Jul 5, 2018, 11:33 am
#384
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: SPG, AA, UAL, Hyatt, Amex Plat
Posts: 38
Really feels like they missed an opportunity to make the SPG Luxury Amex a quality product that people would want to put their everyday spend on (just getting the old 1 SPG / 3 Marriott rate on non-bonus spend would have probably been enough for me to get it). Wonder if there is any hope that they will change it before it launches in August? I'm guessing not since Chase has always been the primary for Marriott...
Speaking of, I signed up for the new Marriott card since I'm well under 5/24 (this was my first new card in the last 24 months) since the 100k bonus is nice. Won't put any spend on the card after the bonus though. Will wait and see how things play out on the 35k point certs, but might be good enough to just keep the Marriott and my old SPG for the two certs a year -- probably good enough to justify the annual fee and want to keep at least one for the bonuses on property, just will never come out of the drawer otherwise I think.
Since I'm a long time CSP holder (missed the window on the big signup bonus for CSR a while back) I think my next plan will then be to downgrade my CSP to Freedom Unlimited for everyday spend, regular bills and the like, and then signup for the CSR for the perks and 3x on dinning and travel and use that combo (since I should qualify for the bonus then).
I assume that is the right way to setup my Chase UR accounts? Downgrading shouldn't lose my points (just can't use them from travel/transfer until I have the CSR open) and that way I end up with both a Freedom Unlimited and get the CSR signup bonus?
Speaking of, I signed up for the new Marriott card since I'm well under 5/24 (this was my first new card in the last 24 months) since the 100k bonus is nice. Won't put any spend on the card after the bonus though. Will wait and see how things play out on the 35k point certs, but might be good enough to just keep the Marriott and my old SPG for the two certs a year -- probably good enough to justify the annual fee and want to keep at least one for the bonuses on property, just will never come out of the drawer otherwise I think.
Since I'm a long time CSP holder (missed the window on the big signup bonus for CSR a while back) I think my next plan will then be to downgrade my CSP to Freedom Unlimited for everyday spend, regular bills and the like, and then signup for the CSR for the perks and 3x on dinning and travel and use that combo (since I should qualify for the bonus then).
I assume that is the right way to setup my Chase UR accounts? Downgrading shouldn't lose my points (just can't use them from travel/transfer until I have the CSR open) and that way I end up with both a Freedom Unlimited and get the CSR signup bonus?
Jul 10, 2018, 4:52 am
#385
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,649
just received this email in the morning:
both my cards were renewed recently....does anyone know if this mean i'll get the free nights next year when i renew again or this year after august 1st????
Starting August 1, as a Starwood Preferred Guest® Credit Card Member, you’ll receive one Free Night Award every year after your Card account anniversary.¹And because you have an SPG® Business Card too, you’ll earn one free night after each Card’s anniversary date. That’s two free nights annually at hotels all over the world.Redeem your free night (redemption level at or under 35,000 points) at more than 6,300 hotels across 28 brands worldwide, including the following. Select hotels have resort fees.2
Jul 10, 2018, 6:52 am
#386
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ORD
Posts: 14,225
Is there any new consensus on SPG AmEx replacements? I have a CSR but it's the card Mr. Gfunk and I use to split shared expenses. I don't really think the SPG Amex will be worth the $95 annual fee going forward. What do people recommend?
I've liked the SPG Amex over the years for mainly hotel redemptions. Perhaps I'll go with the Chase Marriott Visa? Or perhaps the Freedom? Something else?
Thanks for ideas.
I've liked the SPG Amex over the years for mainly hotel redemptions. Perhaps I'll go with the Chase Marriott Visa? Or perhaps the Freedom? Something else?
Thanks for ideas.
Jul 10, 2018, 7:47 am
#388
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
Is there any new consensus on SPG AmEx replacements? I have a CSR but it's the card Mr. Gfunk and I use to split shared expenses. I don't really think the SPG Amex will be worth the $95 annual fee going forward. What do people recommend?
I've liked the SPG Amex over the years for mainly hotel redemptions. Perhaps I'll go with the Chase Marriott Visa? Or perhaps the Freedom? Something else?
Thanks for ideas.
I've liked the SPG Amex over the years for mainly hotel redemptions. Perhaps I'll go with the Chase Marriott Visa? Or perhaps the Freedom? Something else?
Thanks for ideas.
And personally the SPG Amex is one of my oldest cards so I'd probably hold onto it for the credit score benefits alone, others may be in a similar situation. Especially now that Amex has recently introduced more restrictive product change rules (you can only product change within each brand, meaning an SPG card can change only to another SPG card, so there's no opportunity to change an SPG card to a no-annual-fee product to hold onto for the purpose of retaining the benefit of the age of the account).
As for other cards, there aren't a lot of options with attractive returns toward hotel stays. The Ultimate Rewards family of cards offers a reasonable value toward Hyatt stays, but there are only so many Hyatt properties, and it's not always the best use of UR points relative to other options. The various SPG/Marriott cards offer a pretty underwhelming return on non-bonus spend, you'd be better off with a 2% cash back card. Certainly the Chase Marriott card does not offer anything that keeping your current SPG Amex wouldn't offer, other than a new sign-up bonus (and the potential for a second annual free night).
Jul 10, 2018, 11:53 am
#389
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,179
Looked online not too long ago and the Fidelity 2% cash back card has a Forex fee of 1%. Bummer. I was all set to go with that but since so much of my spend is overseas, this becomes a 1% cash back card which isn't really very good. Just wanted to make sure people knew about that limitation since it's not obvious from a quick look at the details of the card on the Fidelity site.
Jul 11, 2018, 12:48 am
#390
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 50
Is there currently any good way to work towards elite or upgraded Starwood/Marriott status through spending? I remember seeing somewhere a Marriott CC gave credit for 1 night per 3k spend, but not sure if that product and option is still available.
I think I saw the new AMEX Luxuy Starwood card would give platinum status for 75K spend, but that this expires and has to be met again every year. Is there any way to work towards lifetime upgrade status?
I do a lot of spending for business and read through the high spending card thread, and am currently looking into options with the Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited (but those are UR points and I have always used Starwood and now effectively Marriott for my hotels and all my spending)
Thanks
I think I saw the new AMEX Luxuy Starwood card would give platinum status for 75K spend, but that this expires and has to be met again every year. Is there any way to work towards lifetime upgrade status?
I do a lot of spending for business and read through the high spending card thread, and am currently looking into options with the Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited (but those are UR points and I have always used Starwood and now effectively Marriott for my hotels and all my spending)
Thanks
