Feb 18, 2019, 10:57 am
Last edit by: bhrubin
As of February 2019 this hotel no longer offers club lounge access to Marriott Platinum and higher guests, even if upgraded to a room category which would otherwise offer lounge access, so lounge access mentioned in older reviews would no longer apply.
The hotel also no longer participates in Suite Night Awards.
Breakfast offering for Platinum and higher is in restaurant, buffet plus made to order eggs.
Expert Review from May 2018 posted to the Luxury Hotels Forum: “Stunning hard product with great concierge and service”
https://www.flyertalk.com/hotel-revi...d-service-2620
The hotel also no longer participates in Suite Night Awards.
Breakfast offering for Platinum and higher is in restaurant, buffet plus made to order eggs.
Expert Review from May 2018 posted to the Luxury Hotels Forum: “Stunning hard product with great concierge and service”
https://www.flyertalk.com/hotel-revi...d-service-2620
The Prince Gallery Tokyo Kioicho, Japan, LC [Master Thread]
Feb 17, 2019, 10:58 am
#646
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: England - UK
Posts: 512
The rate difference between a standard room and a room with breakfast and club lounge access is $257 a night this coming Monday. Quite a jump for people who aren't on expense accounts.
Feb 17, 2019, 11:02 am
#647
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
So, reading above, there seems to be a discrepency. One showed a continental menu that was basic (coffee, juice, croissants) supposedly for elites. Another showed a menu that showed Bonvoy buffet (minus cooked to order). Trying to figure out what to update the exec lounge sticky w/?
Cheers.
Cheers.
Feb 17, 2019, 11:56 am
#648
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Programs: Marriott Platinum - LT Gold
Posts: 688
Well the lounge area for this property isn't actually that big to be honest. From my recent stay it did happen that there was no table available during breakfast, one time so we left for the Oasis instead.
I was more impressed by the lounge over at Sheraton Yokohama to be honest. Their lounge was fantastic and big. Biggest lounge I've ever visited was Westin Shanghai though. Felt like a restaurant. So I guess, since the Prince Gallery is fairly new property, they didn't think this through from the start when they were designing the lounge area and designed it too small. Instead of spending money on renovation they are instead limiting access and doing what they are entitled to according to Marriott terms. By doing this perhaps loosing some customers on the way but saving a lot of money by keeping their original lounge area as it is.
Still sucks of course.
I was more impressed by the lounge over at Sheraton Yokohama to be honest. Their lounge was fantastic and big. Biggest lounge I've ever visited was Westin Shanghai though. Felt like a restaurant. So I guess, since the Prince Gallery is fairly new property, they didn't think this through from the start when they were designing the lounge area and designed it too small. Instead of spending money on renovation they are instead limiting access and doing what they are entitled to according to Marriott terms. By doing this perhaps loosing some customers on the way but saving a lot of money by keeping their original lounge area as it is.
Still sucks of course.
Feb 17, 2019, 12:43 pm
#649
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,393
Feb 17, 2019, 1:40 pm
#650
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
Don't get me wrong, not saying I welcome these changes/tweaks, but the combination of the two programs creates a much higher number of Platinum and above elite levels. Yet, at the most popular/aspirational properties, they remain the same physical size and footprint. It's not like they can just make a physical lounge space larger even though there might be twice as many eligible patrons now.
But for the record, since SPGers (and I'm one of them) wants to blame Marriott for everything, even in SPG days, the T&Cs only guaranteed platinum access to lounges for a very small subset of flags (I think it was Sheraton, Le Meridien, and Westin if I remember correctly) anything else was a courtesy and above and beyond. This was often surprising to SPG Platinums as there was just an assumption that the guarantee was chainwide, but it was not.
Regards
But for the record, since SPGers (and I'm one of them) wants to blame Marriott for everything, even in SPG days, the T&Cs only guaranteed platinum access to lounges for a very small subset of flags (I think it was Sheraton, Le Meridien, and Westin if I remember correctly) anything else was a courtesy and above and beyond. This was often surprising to SPG Platinums as there was just an assumption that the guarantee was chainwide, but it was not.
Regards
Say only Titaniums and above get lounge access.
Quite acceptable in my opinion as other programs usually reserve this benefit only for their highest tier members
I understand that old SPGers that get use with 50 nights for lounge will feel shortchanged
Alternatively, Marriott could make 2 tiers or more of Lounge access benefit.
Platinums .. get the current access
Titaniums ... get the current access and added all other brands excluding RC
Ambassador ... get lounge access in all brands including RC
Feb 17, 2019, 2:19 pm
#651
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SFO/YYZ
Programs: AC 25K, AS MVP Gold, BA Bronze, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,464
So, reading above, there seems to be a discrepency. One showed a continental menu that was basic (coffee, juice, croissants) supposedly for elites. Another showed a menu that showed Bonvoy buffet (minus cooked to order). Trying to figure out what to update the exec lounge sticky w/?
Cheers.
Cheers.
I'm guessing the director of sales (and upper management) thinks the hotel will do just fine without Marriott elites eating buffet breakfast or using the lounge. I'm sure their domestic business is brisk enough and it's a pity because this was one of the finer legacy SPG hotels in the country.
Last edited by yosithezet; Feb 17, 2019 at 8:04 pm Reason: Removed redacted content
Feb 17, 2019, 2:55 pm
#652
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
100% agreed. They're running a business and not a charity. We can simply give our money to properties that still recognize Bonvoy benefits.
Their business projections must have shown that lost Elite revenues can be covered by ladies afternoon tea sets, lounge denial, etc.
Their business projections must have shown that lost Elite revenues can be covered by ladies afternoon tea sets, lounge denial, etc.
Feb 17, 2019, 3:04 pm
#653
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SFO/YYZ
Programs: AC 25K, AS MVP Gold, BA Bronze, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,464
If you're maximizing points, you probably shouldn't stay at this hotel regardless. I've never paid over 300 USD a night here in my life; staying on points here is generally bad value relative to the paid rate you can get, except maybe during cherry blossom season.
Feb 17, 2019, 3:48 pm
#654
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Or...it's a an indicator that, with the merger of both Marriott and SPG loyalty programs there are simply way, way more Platinum and above elites than can reasonably fit in a physical space. Have you paused for a moment to consider that possibility?
It is utterly perplexing to me why posters in this forum always have to become melodramatic and assume that every business decision is some sort of conspiracy plot...
Regards
It is utterly perplexing to me why posters in this forum always have to become melodramatic and assume that every business decision is some sort of conspiracy plot...
Regards
The initial partnership with SPG could be considered successful. They got lots of positive press here in Flyertalk and tripadvisor. If you browse this thread between former Flyertalk SPG members and this hotel, you see a mix of paid stays and reward stays. I myself did a award stay but also dined at their restaurant paying full price - so the hotel can honestly say they made money off me.
What caused this drastic change (and not gradual one)? If the problem is small and manageable, then it could have been a gradual change. Only in crisis level do they need to make huge drastic changes. So what happened in 2018 that caused the hotel to make these drastic changes? The most likely reason was was Marriott-SPG program formally merged in August 2018 and for the first time formerly Marriott members can use their points to stay in SPG properties and many of these members choose to redeem at the best of SPG properties without giving those hotels their fair share of wallet spending. Within 6 months, the Prince Gallery Hotel had enough data their experience with many of these members were predatory and ruining the hotel and thus pushed them into crisis management and had to drastically change - no Suite Night Awards, no lounge, just minimum requirement of the program.
I absolutely don't believe if there was a flood of elite members paying retail/market prices as paid stay, there would be a cut in benefits. Let's think it through. If there is a flood of elite members paying $500 a night and their restaurant and lounge is fully packed, and the hotel is always in full capacity. Faced with this embarrassment of riches, the hotel starts to cut benefits that make the partnership with SPG/Marriott a glowing success? Absolutely not! In fact, they would have found ways to mitigate the fully paying members such as partner with the cafes (restaurants) downstairs to accommodate all these $500/night paying guests.
All luxury hotels welcome fully paid guests especially fully paying elite guests (aka returning guests). In the hotel perspective, what they don't want is predatory guests that take from the hotel and not give back. In other words, they don't want members that just use the hotel for reward redemption and would never consider paying retail price to stay at this hotel. Lots of posts in this thread complain that "i will cancel my award stay if no benefit" but I don't see many saying "I will cancel my weekly paying stay totaling $3500+ if you don't give me those lounge access and free breakfast"! Let's be honest. If you are fully paid elite guest and returning to this property, you reach out to the hotel, you have leverage and they may throw in the lounge access for free.
Feb 17, 2019, 4:20 pm
#656
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,393
The Prince brand of hotel (owned by Seibu Group) is a chain and does have its own frequent staying program. They allowed the Gallery Tokyo to co-join the SPG program likely to attract non-Japanese paying members. The Prince Gallery Tokyo hotel joined in early 2016 to the Starwood program - that's 3 years ago. Marriott bought Starwood in November 2015 and by 2016 there is across SPG-Marriott status matches. So there was supposively a lot of Marriott elites that got SPG status match and could have paid stays at the The Prince Gallery Tokyo. The Prince Gallery Tokyo continued to perform in 2016, 2017 and most of 2018. This means the near 3 years of huge number of elite members wasn't the problem causing the hotel to cut benefit. If it was capacity issue, they would have done so in 2016 and 2017.
The initial partnership with SPG could be considered successful. They got lots of positive press here in Flyertalk and tripadvisor. If you browse this thread between former Flyertalk SPG members and this hotel, you see a mix of paid stays and reward stays. I myself did a award stay but also dined at their restaurant paying full price - so the hotel can honestly say they made money off me.
What caused this drastic change (and not gradual one)? If the problem is small and manageable, then it could have been a gradual change. Only in crisis level do they need to make huge drastic changes. So what happened in 2018 that caused the hotel to make these drastic changes? The most likely reason was was Marriott-SPG program formally merged in August 2018 and for the first time formerly Marriott members can use their points to stay in SPG properties and many of these members choose to redeem at the best of SPG properties without giving those hotels their fair share of wallet spending. Within 6 months, the Prince Gallery Hotel had enough data their experience with many of these members were predatory and ruining the hotel and thus pushed them into crisis management and had to drastically change - no Suite Night Awards, no lounge, just minimum requirement of the program.
I absolutely don't believe if there was a flood of elite members paying retail/market prices as paid stay, there would be a cut in benefits. Let's think it through. If there is a flood of elite members paying $500 a night and their restaurant and lounge is fully packed, and the hotel is always in full capacity. Faced with this embarrassment of riches, the hotel starts to cut benefits that make the partnership with SPG/Marriott a glowing success? Absolutely not! In fact, they would have found ways to mitigate the fully paying members such as partner with the cafes (restaurants) downstairs to accommodate all these $500/night paying guests.
All luxury hotels welcome fully paid guests especially fully paying elite guests (aka returning guests). In the hotel perspective, what they don't want is predatory guests that take from the hotel and not give back. In other words, they don't want members that just use the hotel for reward redemption and would never consider paying retail price to stay at this hotel. Lots of posts in this thread complain that "i will cancel my award stay if no benefit" but I don't see many saying "I will cancel my weekly paying stay totaling $3500+ if you don't give me those lounge access and free breakfast"! Let's be honest. If you are fully paid elite guest and returning to this property, you reach out to the hotel, you have leverage and they may throw in the lounge access for free.
The initial partnership with SPG could be considered successful. They got lots of positive press here in Flyertalk and tripadvisor. If you browse this thread between former Flyertalk SPG members and this hotel, you see a mix of paid stays and reward stays. I myself did a award stay but also dined at their restaurant paying full price - so the hotel can honestly say they made money off me.
What caused this drastic change (and not gradual one)? If the problem is small and manageable, then it could have been a gradual change. Only in crisis level do they need to make huge drastic changes. So what happened in 2018 that caused the hotel to make these drastic changes? The most likely reason was was Marriott-SPG program formally merged in August 2018 and for the first time formerly Marriott members can use their points to stay in SPG properties and many of these members choose to redeem at the best of SPG properties without giving those hotels their fair share of wallet spending. Within 6 months, the Prince Gallery Hotel had enough data their experience with many of these members were predatory and ruining the hotel and thus pushed them into crisis management and had to drastically change - no Suite Night Awards, no lounge, just minimum requirement of the program.
I absolutely don't believe if there was a flood of elite members paying retail/market prices as paid stay, there would be a cut in benefits. Let's think it through. If there is a flood of elite members paying $500 a night and their restaurant and lounge is fully packed, and the hotel is always in full capacity. Faced with this embarrassment of riches, the hotel starts to cut benefits that make the partnership with SPG/Marriott a glowing success? Absolutely not! In fact, they would have found ways to mitigate the fully paying members such as partner with the cafes (restaurants) downstairs to accommodate all these $500/night paying guests.
All luxury hotels welcome fully paid guests especially fully paying elite guests (aka returning guests). In the hotel perspective, what they don't want is predatory guests that take from the hotel and not give back. In other words, they don't want members that just use the hotel for reward redemption and would never consider paying retail price to stay at this hotel. Lots of posts in this thread complain that "i will cancel my award stay if no benefit" but I don't see many saying "I will cancel my weekly paying stay totaling $3500+ if you don't give me those lounge access and free breakfast"! Let's be honest. If you are fully paid elite guest and returning to this property, you reach out to the hotel, you have leverage and they may throw in the lounge access for free.
Hotels are paid for award stays; the property isn't providing the room for free. I don't know what the new Starriott reimbursement scheme is, but under SPG, the hotel was paid a lot more if the hotel was close to being full, so they didn't lose on making award rooms possible even during high season periods.
My impression is that PG looks like it's full often (as are many other four and five star hotels in central Tokyo), so unless Bonvoy has drastically changed the formula, they're being paid a lot when someone stays on points or a certificate. OTOH if the hotel isn't full, its reminbursement rate more than covers costs, so getting something for an award stay is better than getting nothing for an empty room.
Moreover, if anything the buffet breakfast would cost the hotel more than a lounge breakfast, so the difference would be the cost of the afternoon tea (for the few people who are around the hotel in the middle of the day), all day (nonalcoholic) beverages, and the evening reception. In addition, there are fixed costs of maintaining the lounge, so preventing elite access won't proportionally reduce costs. It must be open and staffed even if there are no lounge guests, food must be provided for the buffet, etc. The difference is just the cost of the additional F&B consumed in the evening by elites in a setup where it should be easy to check that no one brings additional guests without paying the (high) additional fees.
My impression is that PG looks like it's full often (as are many other four and five star hotels in central Tokyo), so unless Bonvoy has drastically changed the formula, they're being paid a lot when someone stays on points or a certificate. OTOH if the hotel isn't full, its reminbursement rate more than covers costs, so getting something for an award stay is better than getting nothing for an empty room.
Moreover, if anything the buffet breakfast would cost the hotel more than a lounge breakfast, so the difference would be the cost of the afternoon tea (for the few people who are around the hotel in the middle of the day), all day (nonalcoholic) beverages, and the evening reception. In addition, there are fixed costs of maintaining the lounge, so preventing elite access won't proportionally reduce costs. It must be open and staffed even if there are no lounge guests, food must be provided for the buffet, etc. The difference is just the cost of the additional F&B consumed in the evening by elites in a setup where it should be easy to check that no one brings additional guests without paying the (high) additional fees.
Feb 17, 2019, 4:40 pm
#657
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Hotels are paid for award stays; the property isn't providing the room for free. I don't know what the new Starriott reimbursement scheme is, but under SPG, the hotel was paid a lot more if the hotel was close to being full, so they didn't lose on making award rooms possible even during high season periods.
My impression is that PG looks like it's full often (as are many other four and five star hotels in central Tokyo), so unless Bonvoy has drastically changed the formula, they're being paid a lot when someone stays on points or a certificate. OTOH if the hotel isn't full, its reimbursement rate more than covers costs, so getting something for an award stay is better than getting nothing for an empty room.
Moreover, if anything the buffet breakfast would cost the hotel more than a lounge breakfast, so the difference would be the cost of the afternoon tea (for the few people who are around the hotel in the middle of the day), all day (nonalcoholic) beverages, and the evening reception. In addition, there are fixed costs of maintaining the lounge, so preventing elite access won't proportionally reduce costs. It must be open and staffed even if there are no lounge guests, food must be provided for the buffet, etc. The difference is just the cost of the additional F&B consumed in the evening by elites in a setup where it should be easy to check that no one brings additional guests without paying the (high) additional fees.
My impression is that PG looks like it's full often (as are many other four and five star hotels in central Tokyo), so unless Bonvoy has drastically changed the formula, they're being paid a lot when someone stays on points or a certificate. OTOH if the hotel isn't full, its reimbursement rate more than covers costs, so getting something for an award stay is better than getting nothing for an empty room.
Moreover, if anything the buffet breakfast would cost the hotel more than a lounge breakfast, so the difference would be the cost of the afternoon tea (for the few people who are around the hotel in the middle of the day), all day (nonalcoholic) beverages, and the evening reception. In addition, there are fixed costs of maintaining the lounge, so preventing elite access won't proportionally reduce costs. It must be open and staffed even if there are no lounge guests, food must be provided for the buffet, etc. The difference is just the cost of the additional F&B consumed in the evening by elites in a setup where it should be easy to check that no one brings additional guests without paying the (high) additional fees.
Now if the hotel is only 90% full, but still have empty rooms... Starwood's SPG only reimburse a pretty low rate.
The technicalities and details is not too much my thing... The overall theme and my point of believe is very strong - hotel doesn't cut benefits if the merged SPG/Marriott program is a smashing success and there is a windfall of riches. They are making so much money they need to cut some elite members down so they stay elsewhere! I don't think so. More likely than not... There are so many predatory elite members consuming more resources than they bring in or the trouble is so not worth the cost of staff stress, wear & tear and reputation damage and so we need to cut down our generosity so these predatory members prey on some other hotel.
Last edited by yeunganson; Feb 17, 2019 at 7:26 pm
Feb 17, 2019, 4:48 pm
#658
Moderator, El Al and Marriott Bonvoy, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ*G, Mar LTT, Hyatt Glb, AA LTG, LY, HH, IC, BA, DL, UA SLV
Posts: 12,018
Share the sentiment. I’d stayed her due to proximity to work. I’d never voluntarily stay here again with this change.
Feb 17, 2019, 5:15 pm
#659
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,305
I'd like to politely disagree with you on this. I would say many people are doing plenty of paid stays for business and personal reasons and when it comes time for a vacation might chose an aspirational property for their points stays as a reward. Why should somebody staying 50 - 75 - 100 nights or more not be rewarded at these stays as they are for all the bread and butter paid stays they have done?
Sure, there will always be people trying to game the system, and they get a lot of exposure here, but I don't believe for a minute that those are the majority of people using the program.
-David
Feb 17, 2019, 7:25 pm
#660
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: HKG • Ex SFO, NYC
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Marriott Amb; Hyatt Globalist; Shangri-la Diamond; IHG SpireAmb; Hilton D; Accor G
Posts: 3,319
Or...it's a an indicator that, with the merger of both Marriott and SPG loyalty programs there are simply way, way more Platinum and above elites than can reasonably fit in a physical space. Have you paused for a moment to consider that possibility?
It is utterly perplexing to me why posters in this forum always have to become melodramatic and assume that every business decision is some sort of conspiracy plot...
Regards
It is utterly perplexing to me why posters in this forum always have to become melodramatic and assume that every business decision is some sort of conspiracy plot...
Regards