Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Hotels and Places to Stay > Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy
Reload this Page >

Future St. Regis locations: when and where?

Register
Community
Wiki Posts
Today's Posts
Search

Future St. Regis locations: when and where?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 1, 2019, 11:27 pm
  #136  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Originally Posted by EuropeanPete
For Paris they'd really need to aim at Palace Hotel recognition which means an excellent building has to become available, somehow. It does happen, but not often. Sort of similarly (but not the same), there is essentially no new build in London in the areas where you'd want a St Regis and outside of existing leading luxury hotels not a lot of other options. I thought the Admiralty Arch would have been PERFECT, but having missed out on that and Grosvenor Square I wonder how many suitable locations will open up in the next 10 years. I just don't see a St Regis in either city anytime soon, but if they do it had better be spectacular
I think the ship has sailed for a long time on a St Regis in London. Sherwood could never pull it off and even since Marriott the locations that would work have come and long since gone. I remember a conversation with someone in Sherwood a couple of years ago and London is seen as almost impossible as St.R is a lot about the location with their line of best address but also the concept of Butler service and the room size make it almost impossible to make the economics make sense. It just doesn't appeal enough to property owners as they can make more returns with other options than what the operating cost would be for a St. Regis.

This isn't a London only issue but London I believe was seen as the most difficult, but it is why many tier one western cities that don't have a St. Regis still don't without plans to get one. It is one of the reasons for the limited growth of the brand and why it fits within a group, on its own it is to small to easily succeed.
EuropeanPete likes this.
UKTraveller4Fun is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 1, 2019, 11:36 pm
  #137  
Suspended
Original Poster
Marriott 25+ BadgeAman Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Originally Posted by MikeFromTokyo
I have always wanted Ritz-Carlton to take over the management of the Ritz. It of course had a superb location, but it needs to be modernized, and to lose the stuffiness.
That is never going to happen! The Ritz is about French decadence. It’s recent massive renovation managed to maintain decadence while still modernizing relative to that French standard. It always will be formal. And it always will be and need to be on its own. Its presence in Paris virtually assures by trademark there will never be a Ritz-Carlton in Paris. It’s St. Regis Paris or bust. But it will take the right building, indeed.

I always assumed the owner of the Westin Vendome eventually would renovate and convert it into the St Regis Paris—in much the same way the owner of the Westin Europa and Regina Venice is now converting that to the St Regis Venice. Unfortunately, the new owner is planning to turn it into a Jumeirah. One only can hope the owner yet changes its mind and considers St Regis instead. Not likely, though.
And it’s entirely true that if they are going to put up a flag in London, StR need to benchmark themselves against the best hotels in the city.
There is no obvious best luxury hotel or even best 3 hotels in London, and it’s not nearly as vicious a market (nor as polished) as Paris. The presence of the Ritz London virtually assures by trademark that there never will be a Ritz-Carlton in London. So it’s St Regis London or bust, as well.
It probably will happen some day, as new hotels are being built and all other brands are already there.
Paris and London are two of the priciest real estate markets in the world. New construction doesn’t happen often, and real estate doesn’t change hands often. My guess is that London or Paris would happen only through re-flagging of current properties.
bhrubin is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 4:20 am
  #138  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BKK
Posts: 6,741
Originally Posted by bhrubin

That is never going to happen! The Ritz is about French decadence. It’s recent massive renovation managed to maintain decadence while still modernizing relative to that French standard. It always will be formal. And it always will be and need to be on its own. Its presence in Paris virtually assures by trademark there will never be a Ritz-Carlton in Paris. It’s St. Regis Paris or bust. But it will take the right building, indeed.

I always assumed the owner of the Westin Vendome eventually would renovate and convert it into the St Regis Paris—in much the same way the owner of the Westin Europa and Regina Venice is now converting that to the St Regis Venice. Unfortunately, the new owner is planning to turn it into a Jumeirah. One only can hope the owner yet changes its mind and considers St Regis instead. Not likely, though.

There is no obvious best luxury hotel or even best 3 hotels in London, and it’s not nearly as vicious a market (nor as polished) as Paris. The presence of the Ritz London virtually assures by trademark that there never will be a Ritz-Carlton in London. So it’s St Regis London or bust, as well.
Paris and London are two of the priciest real estate markets in the world. New construction doesn’t happen often, and real estate doesn’t change hands often. My guess is that London or Paris would happen only through re-flagging of current properties.
Sorry, I was referring to The Ritz, London.

It probably never will happen either, but whatever happens The Ritz there needs to be updated and to become less stuffy. I suppose they have loyal clientele, but I do not see the appeal in it.
EuropeanPete and bhrubin like this.
MikeFromTokyo is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 6:07 am
  #139  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL DM; Marriott Ambasador Elite
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by bhrubin
Paris and London are two of the priciest real estate markets in the world. New construction doesn’t happen often, and real estate doesn’t change hands often. My guess is that London or Paris would happen only through re-flagging of current properties.
The last couple times I’ve been in London (both within the last 18 months), it was covered in cranes. It is expensive to be sure, but like Manhattan that doesn’t seem to be a major impediment to development.
acrophobia is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 7:28 am
  #140  
Hilton Contributor BadgeHyatt Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Gold, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,712
Originally Posted by MikeFromTokyo


Sorry, I was referring to The Ritz, London.

It probably never will happen either, but whatever happens The Ritz there needs to be updated and to become less stuffy. I suppose they have loyal clientele, but I do not see the appeal in it.
I would agree with this one. The Ritz Paris has become a bit of a theme park for older US tourists which turns off the locals, but which I think is probably a sustainable business model. The Ritz London meanwhile hasn’t really found its place, and you can see their experimenting with dress code in the bar that they are trying to remain relevant. It’s a shame they’re so uptight, dinner in their restaurant was phenomenal, but the only place I’m willing to wear a tie to eat in my gentleman’s club or those of friends.
If the Ritz could be combined with some of the modernity of Brown’s it could be amazing.
MikeFromTokyo likes this.
EuropeanPete is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 2:19 pm
  #141  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,231
Don't forget there was a spectacular St. Regis in London until not that long ago (the Lanesborough), but it was allowed to slip away. The chances of getting another property of that calibre under the St. Regis (or Ritz-Carlton) brand in London seems remote to me. The problem with London and Paris is that St. Regis and Ritz-Carlton are meaningless as brands in a sea of grand luxury hotels many of which have distinguished histories, being able to claim you are the St. Regis in London/Paris just doesn't carry the same brand value as it does in Jakarta or wherever.
lost_in_translation is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 2:32 pm
  #142  
Suspended
Original Poster
Aman Contributor BadgeMarriott 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
Don't forget there was a spectacular St. Regis in London until not that long ago (the Lanesborough), but it was allowed to slip away. The chances of getting another property of that calibre under the St. Regis (or Ritz-Carlton) brand in London seems remote to me. The problem with London and Paris is that St. Regis and Ritz-Carlton are meaningless as brands in a sea of grand luxury hotels many of which have distinguished histories, being able to claim you are the St. Regis in London/Paris just doesn't carry the same brand value as it does in Jakarta or wherever.
I actually despised the Lanesborough...and still do. So I never bothered to stay there even when it was a St Regis. Different strokes for different folks, of course.

I will be quite happy with any new St Regis in London or Paris that has a suitable building or tower, good location, excellent interior amenities, decor, and finishes, typically amazing F&B, and classic St Regis service. They won't be meaningless to me.

There are or soon will be a brand new FS Trinity Square, a brand new Peninsula, the new WA, and 2 new Rosewood properties in London--they don't have any history as hotels and yet can be quite appealing. Any new St Regis won't be any different.

There are or will be new Mandarin Oriental, Peninsula, Shangri-La, Raffles, and Jumeirah hotels in Paris--they don't have any history as hotels and yet can be quite appealing. Any new St Regis won't be any different.
jaejaez and MikeFromTokyo like this.
bhrubin is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 3:02 pm
  #143  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,231
Originally Posted by bhrubin
I actually despised the Lanesborough...and still do. So I never bothered to stay there even when it was a St Regis. Different strokes for different folks, of course.

I will be quite happy with any new St Regis in London or Paris that has a suitable building or tower, good location, excellent interior amenities, decor, and finishes, typically amazing F&B, and classic St Regis service. They won't be meaningless to me.

There are or soon will be a brand new FS Trinity Square, a brand new Peninsula, the new WA, and 2 new Rosewood properties in London--they don't have any history as hotels and yet can be quite appealing. Any new St Regis won't be any different.

There are or will be new Mandarin Oriental, Peninsula, Shangri-La, Raffles, and Jumeirah hotels in Paris--they don't have any history as hotels and yet can be quite appealing. Any new St Regis won't be any different.
I'm not suggesting they wouldn't have any guests / be attractive to some people, I'm suggesting they may struggle to attract enough high margin guests to charge the prices they need to make a St. Regis work. As others have said, it's all about securing a landmark building in a landmark location (or building something truly spectacular, which I'm not convinced is going to happen). You can't just build a generic new build St. Regis in London/Paris and expect to be able to charge Ł600 per night for it. You'll note the thing that unites most of the properties you just listed is they've opened or are opening in a heritage building, the remainder will be building something with no expense spared in a one-of-a-kind location (e.g. the Peninsula in London). Even then, most of them haven't opened so who knows if they'll actually work / stick around!
lost_in_translation is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 7:39 pm
  #144  
SPG 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Jolla, CA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, Lifetime Titanium, Delta Plat, Hilton Diamond , Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,615
Originally Posted by bhrubin
Still hoping the biggest holes in the St Regis portfolio get filled sooner rather than later...

London
Paris
Tokyo
Los Angeles
Chicago
Boston
Sydney
Zurich
Delhi
Seoul
St. Petersburg

While we are wishing can we get one in San Diego? Even better- La Jolla or North County. And bring one back to Orange County (Beach) and anywhere in Hawaii again? And let!s add Berlin too!
damon88 is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 7:41 pm
  #145  
SPG 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Jolla, CA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, Lifetime Titanium, Delta Plat, Hilton Diamond , Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,615
Originally Posted by EuropeanPete
Zurich and Delhi are the two from that list which really shout out at me. In some of the other markets where the luxury hotel market is well developed over 100+ years I still think it would be difficult for a St Regis to enter - and actually risks tarnishing the brand. Park Hyatt in Paris proved it can be done, but is tricky.

I’d love to see more St Regises in cities a tier below these where I think they have a chance to create leading hotels in less established luxury markets. With the St Regis increasingly being a Chinese-focused brand out East, I could see one in Manila or Sydney being easy winners (edit: I missed your suggestion of Sydney first time around). In Europe where the brand is a mix of American, Chinese and randoms I could see interesting opportunities in places like Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Stockholm and Milan.

More interestingly, I wonder where there could be a market for St Regis resorts. I’m incredibly sad that Four Seasons took over Astir Palace in Athens which screamed St Regis at me, but how about a pleasant hotel in Nice, the Dalmatian Coast or to go really off-piste how about Northern Norway (Lofoten) or Finland...
Was going to suggest Dalmatian Coast 👍
EuropeanPete likes this.
damon88 is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 11:01 pm
  #146  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Originally Posted by EuropeanPete


I would agree with this one. The Ritz Paris has become a bit of a theme park for older US tourists which turns off the locals, but which I think is probably a sustainable business model. The Ritz London meanwhile hasn’t really found its place, and you can see their experimenting with dress code in the bar that they are trying to remain relevant. It’s a shame they’re so uptight, dinner in their restaurant was phenomenal, but the only place I’m willing to wear a tie to eat in my gentleman’s club or those of friends.
If the Ritz could be combined with some of the modernity of Brown’s it could be amazing.
I actually like the dress code for the restaurant at The Ritz London and fact it offers a full evenings experience with a certain setting and standard. The fact it maintains the need for a tie sets it apart from many places and with so many choices of where to eat in London the fact there is a choice to pick somewhere that maintains a dress code that 95% of the year I don't adhear to is something that attracts me to it. I have in the last 5 years only worn ties to Weddings, funerals and the Ritz and if they relaxed the dress code it would no longer be the experience it is and I would probably no longer go!
Isochronous likes this.
UKTraveller4Fun is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 2, 2019, 11:05 pm
  #147  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
I'm not suggesting they wouldn't have any guests / be attractive to some people, I'm suggesting they may struggle to attract enough high margin guests to charge the prices they need to make a St. Regis work. As others have said, it's all about securing a landmark building in a landmark location (or building something truly spectacular, which I'm not convinced is going to happen). You can't just build a generic new build St. Regis in London/Paris and expect to be able to charge Ł600 per night for it. You'll note the thing that unites most of the properties you just listed is they've opened or are opening in a heritage building, the remainder will be building something with no expense spared in a one-of-a-kind location (e.g. the Peninsula in London). Even then, most of them haven't opened so who knows if they'll actually work / stick around!
Without the historic building a St. Regis in London simply wouldn't work, there is an image issue also, St. Regis as a brand is generally seen as a step or two down from many of the brand's mentioned in this thread. Or to put it another way many people see it as a step up from luxury Collection / Marriott Edition / Intercontinental etc, which in my view is an issue as any brand aiming to be where St. Regis London would need to be needs to be thought of outside of those brands completely.
EuropeanPete likes this.
UKTraveller4Fun is offline  
Reply
Old May 29, 2020, 8:59 pm
  #148  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 598
Some good news...they've cleared all legal hurdles and are hoping to start sales for the St. Regis Residences at Longboat Key this summer! Resort looks beautiful! https://srresidenceslongboatkey.com/resort-community/
svo242 is offline  
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2020, 3:09 am
  #149  
Hyatt Contributor BadgeMarriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kuwait (KW)
Programs: Qatar Airways, Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 2,708
The St. Regis announced for Melbourne, Australia in August 2018 with a 2022 opening has officially been cancelled - the project was revised to only include office space and residences.

I feel like we'll be seeing many projects drying up like this over the coming period.

khabah
khabah is online now  
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2020, 10:31 am
  #150  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,803
Not that bad for Melbourne. they still have W and Ritz-Carlton coming soon anyway unless these 2 were cancelled as well.

I doubt it wont happen as W Melbourne starts taking reservation for Feb 2021
and Ritz-Carlton supposedly following in 2021 as well
kaizen7 is offline  
Reply



Advanced Search
Reply Closed Thread Share
Forum Jump

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.