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Buy Presidential Dollar Coins with CC @ Face Value, Free Shipping

Buy Presidential Dollar Coins with CC @ Face Value, Free Shipping

Old Jul 22, 11, 9:48 pm
  #16351  
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Originally Posted by hobo13 View Post
It's a bit ironic that NPR is what actually got this program pulled. I'm not sure which is the bigger waste of taxpayer money -- the coin program or NPR!
I would say NPR At least the coin program was doing some good by getting the coins in circulation.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 9:54 pm
  #16352  
 
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NPR? Sheesh!

Colonel Cathcart runs the US Mint. He's an awesome bureaucrat. He got rid of excess inventory and ended bad press. Two feathers in the cap!

Nooky for Ms. Cathcart tonight!
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:06 pm
  #16353  
 
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Originally Posted by dweick View Post
Incorrect, the coins can't make their way back to the mint because the mint doesn't buy excess coins from the Fed or anyone else.

The coins aren't owned by the US Mint or the US Government and it would be the height of folly for the US Government to buy them back and melt them down as that would cost them $1 per coin and their metal value would barely cover the cost of melting them.
Why would they pay a dollar for them if they are only worth the materials that they are made of? Just like the dollar bill is only worth the fabric ink that goes into it and the US Treasury bond is only worth the paper that it is printed on?
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:25 pm
  #16354  
 
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
I would say NPR At least the coin program was doing some good by getting the coins in circulation.
Oh no doubt NPR. If someone had the "jajkis" to end printing paper dollars, this program would have been a huge success.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:27 pm
  #16355  
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Originally Posted by MojaveJack View Post
Oh no doubt NPR. If someone had the "jajkis" to end printing paper dollars, this program would have been a huge success.
And NPR should have reported on the need to end the paper bill and how much money the coins would save the US Government if everyone started using the coins. But instead they were more interested in a few people getting some frequent flyer miles.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:28 pm
  #16356  
 
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Originally Posted by pierre mclopez View Post
NPR? Sheesh!

Colonel Cathcart runs the US Mint. He's an awesome bureaucrat. He got rid of excess inventory and ended bad press. Two feathers in the cap!

Nooky for Ms. Cathcart tonight!
Not according to: http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint...rectors_office

or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directo...ed_States_Mint


UPDATE:

I never read Catch-22 so the "joke" was beyond me.

Last edited by MojaveJack; Jul 22, 11 at 10:36 pm
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:41 pm
  #16357  
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Originally Posted by hobo13 View Post
I'm not sure which is the bigger waste of taxpayer money -- the coin program or NPR!
Please forgive this intrusion into the imagined.

NPR does not receive any direct federal funding. It does receive a small number of competitive grants from Corporation for Public Broadcasting and federal agencies like the Department of Education and the Department of Commerce. This funding amounts to approximately $3.5M, about 2% of NPR’s overall revenue.

Fox Comedy News Channel received revenue from the Federal government for armed forces recruiting advertising.

Now, back to the war on facts, science, the arts and the Federal government.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:45 pm
  #16358  
 
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Originally Posted by edwards183 View Post
Why would they pay a dollar for them if they are only worth the materials that they are made of? Just like the dollar bill is only worth the fabric ink that goes into it and the US Treasury bond is only worth the paper that it is printed on?
You are the one suggesting the mint would buy them back and melt them down.

Nobody would buy them for a dollar to melt them down and nobody would sell them for less than a dollar when they are worth a dollar as legal tender.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:45 pm
  #16359  
 
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
And NPR should have reported on the need to end the paper bill and how much money the coins would save the US Government if everyone started using the coins. But instead they were more interested in a few people getting some frequent flyer miles.
NPR is just shy of The National Enquirer, Star, National Examiner, or Globe in their journalistic ethics. They chose to focus on the sensational and ignore the value and practicality of the program.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 10:49 pm
  #16360  
 
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Originally Posted by brasov02 View Post
LaughedOutLoud. You can't be serious? Or else you are one of those that actually believe that you can get out of debt by spending more money you don't have (coughdemocrat). Only in the government can you produce billions of items that people don't want and don't use and claim to come out with a profit. It takes a convoluted shell game to come up with that "profit" but that is essentially the game the government plays with all of its confiscated "revenues."
If only the private sector could make their own funny money and live in their own economic fantasy world.
The government isn't spending money when they sell coins to the public, they are making money.

Making money has always proven to be a key ingredient in getting out of debt.

Why would you claim the coins weren't wanted? The US Mint was selling all the dollar coins they could make. They had a product that was in high demand and very profitable.

There is nothing convoluted about making something for 30 cents and selling it for a dollar. That's pretty straightforward and understandable to me. What part of it don't you get?
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Old Jul 22, 11, 11:08 pm
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Why is this thread still open?
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Old Jul 22, 11, 11:25 pm
  #16362  
 
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Originally Posted by dweick View Post
The US Treasury makes a profit, you can read the US Mint's annual report to see how much they transfer, in profits, to the US Treasury every year.

There is no obligation on the US Government when they issue a coin. None, they sell it and they are done with it. If you disagree, tell me what I can demand the government pay me for my $1 coin. It isn't a debt instrument and the government is obligated to redeem it for anything at all.

You are also mistaken in saying the Federal Reserve has to "buy US Treasuries" in order to pay the banks for their coins. First of all, to raise money to buy something, like coins, requires you to sell something so if anything the Federal Reserve would have to sell Treasuries to raise cash to pay the banks for coins.

But the Federal Reserve is free to make as much "money" as it wants. It recently created, out of thin air, $17 trillion that it distributed during the financial crisis. There weren't $17 billion in Treasuries sold by the Federal Reserve to raise that money, they just created it. That's something the Federal Reserve does, they create money, literally.

It is simply false to state that " because the coins are legal tender, the banks have are under legal obligation to pay off $1 of your debt in exchange for that $1 coin". The banks don't pay off any of my debt when I deposit a $1 coin. They merely credit my account with $1 and add $1 to their cash on hand.

If they choose, they can ship excess coins to the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve merely credits the bank's account in a manner similar to how the bank credits my account.

No Treasuries or other debt instruments are involved.

The US Mint makes 70 cents for every dollar coin sold and at the end of the year sends the 70 cents to the US Treasury where it is deposited to the general fund. The US Government makes a profit regardless of whether the dollar coin ends up in my sofa or the Federal Reserve vault.
The coin seigniorage argument has an ignoratio elenchi logical fallacy.
Under this logic we could solve our deficit problem by doing the following as posted originally somewhere else:

the Treasury, which the US Mint is part of, could order the mint to produce special very large face value Platinum coins (e.g. each coin might have a face value of 500 Billion USD or more), and to deposit those coins in the Mint’s account at the Fed. The Fed could not refuse the coins or fail to credit their face value because they are legal tender. Since the Federal Reserve Banks (though not the Board of Governors and the FOMC) are legally in the private sector, acceptance by them of a deposit in the form of the jumbo coins, resulting in their markup of the Mint’s Account by the face value of the coins, from an accounting point of view, gets recorded as a sale of the coins to the private sector. The portion of the receipts from the “sale” representing the Mint’s seigniorage profit, after the costs of minting the coins are subtracted, may then be periodically swept into the Treasury General Account, and would go into the category of “miscellaneous receipts” to the Treasury, lifting the Treasury’s revenue total.

Enough jumbo coins could erase the annual deficit, and since part of government expenditures in any year involves paying off interest and principal on the national debt, enough of them would also erase the national debt over a decade or more. There would be no national debt to leave to our grandchildren, and also there would be a continuously declining debt-to-GDP ratio. Technically, there would also be no more deficit spending, even though in most years, Government spending would continue to exceed tax revenues.

So, coin seigniorage looks like a solution to the debt



So technically yes, the treasury makes $$ off of $1 coin sales. (Of course if you had to add in the shipping and CC transaction fees it would make a lot less, since those costs are not borne by the mint under this program). But in reality since those coins are readily exchangeable with Federal Reserve Notes, there really is no difference. And those notes cannot be exchanged for silver or gold anymore so coins are just as much fiat as notes. Coin seigniorage is a technical holdover from when the monetary base was precious metal.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 11:34 pm
  #16363  
 
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Originally Posted by QL_714 View Post
Why is this thread still open?
Because we want to see if the world ends when we reach P2K!
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Old Jul 22, 11, 11:44 pm
  #16364  
 
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
Originally Posted by MojaveJack View Post
Oh no doubt NPR. If someone had the "jajkis" to end printing paper dollars, this program would have been a huge success.
And NPR should have reported on the need to end the paper bill and how much money the coins would save the US Government if everyone started using the coins. But instead they were more interested in a few people getting some frequent flyer miles.
You two haven't listened to the latest podcast have you? The latest GAO report/analysis says that there is no longer a cost advantage in a dollar transition. Bill lifetime has gone up, coin materials and energy costs are now higher.
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Old Jul 22, 11, 11:45 pm
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Originally Posted by edwards183 View Post
But in reality since those coins are readily exchangeable with Federal Reserve Notes, there really is no difference. And those notes cannot be exchanged for silver or gold anymore so coins are just as much fiat as notes. Coin seigniorage is a technical holdover from when the monetary base was precious metal.
Federal Reserve Notes could NEVER be exchanged for silver or gold, unless you were buying the metals at their prevailing spot price and used them as currency. Silver Certificates and Gold Certificates were the only instruments that had the metal redemption feature, until 1968 and 1933 respectively.
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