Jan 3, 2019, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: randomperson24
NEW TO MS? It's suggested that new arrivals should do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here (2019-2024)
Feb 13, 2019, 8:56 pm
#46
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 483
Hello
1) Are the basic steps for the manufactured spend using Vanilla Gift Cards spelled out anywhere? I can only seen to glean a few tidbits about the process in the threads I've read.
2) If I only need to manufacture spend $1000 a month, is that the most recommended route for me?
Sorry that I'm so lost regarding this...I can't even figure out most of the acronyms used in this thread
.
1) Are the basic steps for the manufactured spend using Vanilla Gift Cards spelled out anywhere? I can only seen to glean a few tidbits about the process in the threads I've read.
2) If I only need to manufacture spend $1000 a month, is that the most recommended route for me?
Sorry that I'm so lost regarding this...I can't even figure out most of the acronyms used in this thread
.
Feb 14, 2019, 1:48 am
#47
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
1) Are the basic steps for the manufactured spend using Vanilla Gift Cards spelled out anywhere? I can only seen to glean a few tidbits about the process in the threads I've read.
2) If I only need to manufacture spend $1000 a month, is that the most recommended route for me?
2) If I only need to manufacture spend $1000 a month, is that the most recommended route for me?
For a $1000/month, the basic route is buy vgc, making sure you're getting cashback on your credit card. Use the vgc to buy some money order orders or load to Amex Serve. Make sure to use the vgc as a debit card -- you'll need the PIN, so check the packaging for what the default PIN is.
Good luck!
Feb 15, 2019, 3:14 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Posts: 522
I'm not new to MS (used USPS until the shutdown and now use Walmart), but I'm wondering how to MS with AMEX seeing as they've stopped counting a lot of gift cards towards MS. My previous landlord let me pay rent via credit card, but unfortunately my new one is old school and takes check or Zelle only.
Feb 15, 2019, 3:40 pm
#49
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 92
For Amex, avoid any MS while doing minimum spends. Then if you stay away from SM, L3 reporters like OSS, and businesses with GC in the name, things seem to be working (until they aren't).
Feb 15, 2019, 4:29 pm
#50
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,673
I'm not new to MS (used USPS until the shutdown and now use Walmart), but I'm wondering how to MS with AMEX seeing as they've stopped counting a lot of gift cards towards MS. My previous landlord let me pay rent via credit card, but unfortunately my new one is old school and takes check or Zelle only.
Using Kiva to manufacture spend
Feb 17, 2019, 12:12 pm
#52
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Posts: 522
Feb 18, 2019, 11:53 am
#53
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 725
What do you mean by getting cashback on my credit card? I have purchased many retail store gift cards but have not received any cashback on my credit cards...unless I don't understand the true meaning of cashback.
Feb 18, 2019, 1:25 pm
#54
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
Some CC will pay you to use them. For example, the Citi Double Cashback card gives you 2% https://citicards.citi.com/usc/LPACA...04C3FB4CE14032
There are other cards that will give more but are usually limited to certain categories
Chase INK - 5% at office supply stores such as Staples & Ofiice Max/Office Depot 9but it's a business card)
Discover - 5% on rotating categories. Right now it's 5% at grocery stores. Max $75 cashback for $1500 spend.
Chase Freedom - 5% on rotating categories. Right now it's 5% at drug stores like Walgreens or CVS. Max $75 cashback for $1500 spend.
Google for "best cashback credit cards" and pick the one the works the best for you. You'll probably want to start with Chase because they have a rule that they will deny your cc application if you've opened too many other cards recently (google 5/24 rule)
Know that cashback is different from the signup bonus.
Watch out for cards the say "x", "times", or "points", as these are not always the same as "%". They can be worth it, but it makes cards harder to compare.
Good luck!
There are other cards that will give more but are usually limited to certain categories
Chase INK - 5% at office supply stores such as Staples & Ofiice Max/Office Depot 9but it's a business card)
Discover - 5% on rotating categories. Right now it's 5% at grocery stores. Max $75 cashback for $1500 spend.
Chase Freedom - 5% on rotating categories. Right now it's 5% at drug stores like Walgreens or CVS. Max $75 cashback for $1500 spend.
Google for "best cashback credit cards" and pick the one the works the best for you. You'll probably want to start with Chase because they have a rule that they will deny your cc application if you've opened too many other cards recently (google 5/24 rule)
Know that cashback is different from the signup bonus.
Watch out for cards the say "x", "times", or "points", as these are not always the same as "%". They can be worth it, but it makes cards harder to compare.
Good luck!
Feb 19, 2019, 11:14 am
#55
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 725
Thank you for the clarification of "cash back".
The card that I need to have manufactured spend is the Chase United Explorer Business card. The cashback for purchases is 1 mile per $1 spent.
I have been looking a Visa and Vanilla gift cards. Is it correct that the largest gift card amount is $200?
Also, what is a reasonable expectation for the percentage of the manufactured spend that will be fees for the gift cards and fees for money order purchasing? For example, if I manufacture spend $1000 what would you expect the fees/cost should be? It seems to be about 4%. Is that correct?
Thanks
The card that I need to have manufactured spend is the Chase United Explorer Business card. The cashback for purchases is 1 mile per $1 spent.
I have been looking a Visa and Vanilla gift cards. Is it correct that the largest gift card amount is $200?
Also, what is a reasonable expectation for the percentage of the manufactured spend that will be fees for the gift cards and fees for money order purchasing? For example, if I manufacture spend $1000 what would you expect the fees/cost should be? It seems to be about 4%. Is that correct?
Thanks
Feb 19, 2019, 11:22 am
#56
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,811
Miles aren’t cashback. Cashback is just that, cash back. It means you get 2% (for example) back. You pay 100$ using your card, then 2$ will be taken off your credit card bill and you’ll end up paying only 98$.
If you can manufacture spend for less than 2% in fees/losses (in this example), you’ll turn a profit.
If you can manufacture spend for less than 2% in fees/losses (in this example), you’ll turn a profit.
Feb 20, 2019, 12:18 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
I have been looking a Visa and Vanilla gift cards. Is it correct that the largest gift card amount is $200?
Also, what is a reasonable expectation for the percentage of the manufactured spend that will be fees for the gift cards and fees for money order purchasing? For example, if I manufacture spend $1000 what would you expect the fees/cost should be? It seems to be about 4%. Is that correct?
Also, what is a reasonable expectation for the percentage of the manufactured spend that will be fees for the gift cards and fees for money order purchasing? For example, if I manufacture spend $1000 what would you expect the fees/cost should be? It seems to be about 4%. Is that correct?
Fees usually run around $7 for a $500 card, plus $1 for a money order, so $8 per $500 card which is 1.6%. $200 cards cost about the same, but $8 per $200 is 4%. Obviously, you're better with larger denomination cards, plus it requires fewer trips. Once you get started, you'll find ways to lower the fees even more, but it's good to start small and make sure it works in your area.
Feb 20, 2019, 11:27 am
#58
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SFO/SMF
Programs: Hertz PC
Posts: 173
I'm not new to MS (used USPS until the shutdown and now use Walmart), but I'm wondering how to MS with AMEX seeing as they've stopped counting a lot of gift cards towards MS. My previous landlord let me pay rent via credit card, but unfortunately my new one is old school and takes check or Zelle only.
Using an Amex for resident rent is allowed per Plastiq https://help.plastiq.com/hc/en-us/ar...all-categories
Feb 20, 2019, 2:44 pm
#59
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
I would suggest
1) Switch to a card that gives you 5% back. You could combine the CC cashback with stores that give you fuel points, or use online portals that throw in their own cashback.
2) Find a way to lower fees - wait for the vgc to go on sale, or buy them where they don't charge $6.95 fee.
3) Alright, I had a 3rd one when I started this list, but can't remember it now.
Good luck!