Call from Citi asking me about GC purchases :/
Jan 25, 2018, 10:47 pm
#46
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A trace of what kind?
Gift cards can be bought with cash. So are you saying that if I use a credit card to buy a gift card, that the gift card operator is notified of which credit card belonging to whom bought that gift card (even though if I bought the card at the same store with cash, they would not get any info about who bought it)?
Then are you saying that ifI hand that gift card to someone else, that somehow the gift card company detects that???
A trace of usage is not the same things as trace of ownership, possession, etc.
And if a gift card is used only once to buy a money order, what good is the trace if it only traces from use-to-use? Does the trace figure out who you wrote the money order to?
Yes, a gift card can be traced in terms of where it was bought and where it was used, but that's not the same as who bought and who used it and what they used it for exactly (ie, in the case of money order to whom and from whom).
Gift cards can be bought with cash. So are you saying that if I use a credit card to buy a gift card, that the gift card operator is notified of which credit card belonging to whom bought that gift card (even though if I bought the card at the same store with cash, they would not get any info about who bought it)?
Then are you saying that ifI hand that gift card to someone else, that somehow the gift card company detects that???
A trace of usage is not the same things as trace of ownership, possession, etc.
And if a gift card is used only once to buy a money order, what good is the trace if it only traces from use-to-use? Does the trace figure out who you wrote the money order to?
Yes, a gift card can be traced in terms of where it was bought and where it was used, but that's not the same as who bought and who used it and what they used it for exactly (ie, in the case of money order to whom and from whom).
You change the initial discussion from using CC to buy GC and then nobody knows how the GC is used for (definitely not true on the last part) to now talking about using Cash to buy GC = which is not even part of the equation in the scope of Citi shuts down an AA card because it is used to buy GC, and you claim it would be for possible fraud. What fraud? I ask you one more time. So far you fail to provide any convincing reason to support your "possible fraud" argument. Though that does not stop you from twisting the discussion with an Apple to Orange comparison as usual. LOL.
NoonRadar gives you the basics on both areas that you confused and mixed them together. I suggest you read the post quoted below. so you could understand things more correctly.
Kinda apples and oranges mixed together in this comment. There are many entities involved in buying, selling and tracing if need be.
If feds wanna investigate & trace, they can do so much more easily and reliably when you buy the gift card with a credit card; they can obtain record to all parties involved in the chain and will be able to trace who bought the gift card and what they bought with that gift card.
On the other hand, the store that sells you the gift cards is only worried for their part in this chain, so some stores prefer you use cash b/c it's less common for a low level fraudster to try to buy $200-$500 gift cards with fake dollar bills vs a stolen/cloned credit card.
If feds wanna investigate & trace, they can do so much more easily and reliably when you buy the gift card with a credit card; they can obtain record to all parties involved in the chain and will be able to trace who bought the gift card and what they bought with that gift card.
On the other hand, the store that sells you the gift cards is only worried for their part in this chain, so some stores prefer you use cash b/c it's less common for a low level fraudster to try to buy $200-$500 gift cards with fake dollar bills vs a stolen/cloned credit card.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 25, 2018 at 10:58 pm
Jan 26, 2018, 2:32 am
#47
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part of the problem is how many people do you know who purchases $500+ worth of gas at any 1 time, thats why when every now and nthen i get a GC at a gas place I get the fraud squad calling me to make sure its legit. same with supermkts who spends $1k yet multipes of that at any 1 time. Ive gotten calls on that too and told them why the amount was what it was 9no not buying GCs) and bingo they put a note on my acct not to bother me, its legit. Sure i can but the max a supermkt will allow but you better have some good reason that sounds plausable. and when the amount ends in a .00 or .05 its almost a tell to them what youre getting
Its not only what will the sell me but more important what can I reasonably explain away if called upon that is my key i go by. So if you can explain away $500 at a gas place , can do justify it for day after day or 3x a week
Just as theres a saying dont deposit the MOs at the bank whose CC you are using, I say dont MS with a CC where you dont want the bank to shut all your accts down
those guys who ran into trouble with Citi can I ask if you were Citi-Golds with a nice 6 figure bal in all accts. Or a Cahse Private client if Chase shut you down Just want to see if they treat the elites any different then those w/o top status
Its not only what will the sell me but more important what can I reasonably explain away if called upon that is my key i go by. So if you can explain away $500 at a gas place , can do justify it for day after day or 3x a week
Just as theres a saying dont deposit the MOs at the bank whose CC you are using, I say dont MS with a CC where you dont want the bank to shut all your accts down
those guys who ran into trouble with Citi can I ask if you were Citi-Golds with a nice 6 figure bal in all accts. Or a Cahse Private client if Chase shut you down Just want to see if they treat the elites any different then those w/o top status
Jan 26, 2018, 6:32 am
#48
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Just two cents on audit trails when it comes to MS transactions. Twice I have had MO purchases at grocers fail where the GC was not accepted yet payment was taken from the GC. In both situations we went to the store video tapes to prove the transaction took place. Today's audit trails include not just electronic transfers, but the videos from the lidless eye which can be synched to the time and date stamp on various receipts.
Jan 28, 2018, 6:27 pm
#49
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Just two cents on audit trails when it comes to MS transactions. Twice I have had MO purchases at grocers fail where the GC was not accepted yet payment was taken from the GC. In both situations we went to the store video tapes to prove the transaction took place. Today's audit trails include not just electronic transfers, but the videos from the lidless eye which can be synched to the time and date stamp on various receipts.
This also means that if needed, even CASH purchase could be traced IF the time and location of the purchase were known.
The whole audit trail starts from the initial purchase with a CC, and ends with the disposal of the MO as to who bought it, where it is bought and eventually where the GC is used for. If it is for purchase of an MO then where the MO went. Obviously would not be stuffed in a cookie jar. Whether it is used to pay a bill, given to someone else who eventually disposed it, or deposited into one's own bank - it is all traceable information.
Jan 28, 2018, 6:40 pm
#50
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Just as theres a saying dont deposit the MOs at the bank whose CC you are using, I say dont MS with a CC where you dont want the bank to shut all your accts down
those guys who ran into trouble with Citi can I ask if you were Citi-Golds with a nice 6 figure bal in all accts. Or a Cahse Private client if Chase shut you down Just want to see if they treat the elites any different then those w/o top status
No idea about Citi whether being a Citi Gold would gives you a license to MS.
Jan 28, 2018, 7:56 pm
#51
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Because the management are ignorant. Or they dont want to deal with possible loss from fraudulent charges made with stolen credit cards so they invented bogus reasons to give orders to their cashiers. The cashiers just follow orders because if they dont, they lose their jobs.
Thank you for pointing this out. Glad you can see thru it. You are absolutely on target in both paragraph. That is exactly how I view it.
He first claimed about it was possible fraud because no one would know what the Gift Cards would be used for. Now he switched the tone to Cash can be used to buy those GCs. I dont think anyone here has talked about using cash to buy GCs. Chuckles! Here the OP was telling us he bought GCs with his AA card. Then sdsearch claimed it was due to possible frauds. I suggested what fraud when everything was traceable and the poster did not cycle his CL and paid in full every month, did not have a Burst Out pattern? So now he said Cash can be used to buy GCs. How would that relate to Citi shut down an AA card due to the card is being used to buy GCs? Apple to Orange indeed, but that may be the usual way employed to divert the discussion versus admitted error. Happens often.
Thank you for pointing this out. Glad you can see thru it. You are absolutely on target in both paragraph. That is exactly how I view it.
He first claimed about it was possible fraud because no one would know what the Gift Cards would be used for. Now he switched the tone to Cash can be used to buy those GCs. I dont think anyone here has talked about using cash to buy GCs. Chuckles! Here the OP was telling us he bought GCs with his AA card. Then sdsearch claimed it was due to possible frauds. I suggested what fraud when everything was traceable and the poster did not cycle his CL and paid in full every month, did not have a Burst Out pattern? So now he said Cash can be used to buy GCs. How would that relate to Citi shut down an AA card due to the card is being used to buy GCs? Apple to Orange indeed, but that may be the usual way employed to divert the discussion versus admitted error. Happens often.
From the stores' perspective, if they've hit by fraud on ;mass buying of gift cards with cash or cash equivalents, then they may not take care to distinguish and may paint mass buying of gift card with anything in the same brush. Something similiar may happen at banks, where they have fraud but there's not sure how to "cleanly" tell apart potential fraud from stuff that's no problem at all.
I have no idea what happened to the OP and I wasn't trying to explain it. I was just explaining how fraudulent uses of gift cards and MSing uses of gift cards can seem a little too smiliar to people who aren't looking at it closely enough.
My main point is that that there is gift card fraud out there, and just because you know that MSing isn't gift card fraud, not everyone who observes some slice of MSing (from the outside) knows the difference. Some people like to jump to conclusions, and some people seeing massive gift card buying may jump to the conclusion of "fraud" whether it's justified or not, because they no imagination for seeing the other possibilities.
We all know that Citi is calendar-math challenged and T&C reading challenged and other things. Some people at Citi are probably challenged about the definition of "fraud" too.
Jan 29, 2018, 7:20 am
#52
Join Date: Oct 2009
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No, personal experience says Citi Gold does not give you A License to MS. After about 007 million in presidential dollar and MO deposits, Citi gave me the Goldfinger a few years back.
In case you are not aware, Chase shuts down CPC regardless as reported in a reddit shut down thread. It is also reported long ago in the Chase shut down thread right on FT. So dont think "elites" are exempt. Chase does not need your 6 figures if it decides to fire you as a customer, when it has close to 25 Billions in quarterly revenues.
No idea about Citi whether being a Citi Gold would gives you a license to MS.
No idea about Citi whether being a Citi Gold would gives you a license to MS.
Jan 29, 2018, 11:20 pm
#53
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Because i was not trying to explain the OPs situation. I was just pointing of various issues about possible gift card fraud.
From the stores' perspective, if they've hit by fraud on ;mass buying of gift cards with cash or cash equivalents, then they may not take care to distinguish and may paint mass buying of gift card with anything in the same brush. Something similiar may happen at banks, where they have fraud but there's not sure how to "cleanly" tell apart potential fraud from stuff that's no problem at all.
I have no idea what happened to the OP and I wasn't trying to explain it. I was just explaining how fraudulent uses of gift cards and MSing uses of gift cards can seem a little too smiliar to people who aren't looking at it closely enough.
My main point is that that there is gift card fraud out there, and just because you know that MSing isn't gift card fraud, not everyone who observes some slice of MSing (from the outside) knows the difference. Some people like to jump to conclusions, and some people seeing massive gift card buying may jump to the conclusion of "fraud" whether it's justified or not, because they no imagination for seeing the other possibilities.
We all know that Citi is calendar-math challenged and T&C reading challenged and other things. Some people at Citi are probably challenged about the definition of "fraud" too.
From the stores' perspective, if they've hit by fraud on ;mass buying of gift cards with cash or cash equivalents, then they may not take care to distinguish and may paint mass buying of gift card with anything in the same brush. Something similiar may happen at banks, where they have fraud but there's not sure how to "cleanly" tell apart potential fraud from stuff that's no problem at all.
I have no idea what happened to the OP and I wasn't trying to explain it. I was just explaining how fraudulent uses of gift cards and MSing uses of gift cards can seem a little too smiliar to people who aren't looking at it closely enough.
My main point is that that there is gift card fraud out there, and just because you know that MSing isn't gift card fraud, not everyone who observes some slice of MSing (from the outside) knows the difference. Some people like to jump to conclusions, and some people seeing massive gift card buying may jump to the conclusion of "fraud" whether it's justified or not, because they no imagination for seeing the other possibilities.
We all know that Citi is calendar-math challenged and T&C reading challenged and other things. Some people at Citi are probably challenged about the definition of "fraud" too.
NoonRadar has spotted that too when you twisted the argument from using CC to using Cash and he gives you a very concise and precise sum up on the topic, though that does not stop you from beating the dead horse.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 30, 2018 at 10:10 am
Jan 29, 2018, 11:21 pm
#54
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Have you tried to get back to Citi's fold? Seems the shining dollar is eons ago. Worth a try to test the water.
Jan 30, 2018, 7:16 am
#55
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Never tried - I am happy with my 7 other financial institutions which includes Northwest Federal CU (For Your Spies Only). Have alternative cards for 2% cash back, American Airlines miles, Priority Pass access and Hilton status so Citi just offers nothing of value to me these days.
Jan 30, 2018, 7:22 am
#56
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Even when people are forthcoming with details, often times there are other factors that people don't think to mention when they report shutdowns. I also suspect there's more to this story and so I only see this as a useful data point inasmuch as it can be corroborated by others about recent events (last few months).
P.S. Not directly related to this, but a gas station employee recently volunteered to me that after someone bought VGCs there, the bank (presumably buyer's credit card bank) called to verify the transaction. This employee didn't give me any more details, like which bank, what amount, what did they ask for etc. I'm not sure if others have any such data points, it'd be helpful in figuring out if there is a pattern of increased scrutiny regarding MS/gift card purchases within a bank or even cross banks.
P.S. Not directly related to this, but a gas station employee recently volunteered to me that after someone bought VGCs there, the bank (presumably buyer's credit card bank) called to verify the transaction. This employee didn't give me any more details, like which bank, what amount, what did they ask for etc. I'm not sure if others have any such data points, it'd be helpful in figuring out if there is a pattern of increased scrutiny regarding MS/gift card purchases within a bank or even cross banks.
Jan 30, 2018, 9:23 am
#58
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 102
My Citi Simplicity and Double cash were both shut down last month. No warning or phone call was given. Just the typical you go to the store and your credit card suddenly doesn't work. Yes, use our card, use our card. Then one day we're just going to leave you hanging. Amex only gives 1% cash back on non category purchases, so it isn't that great, but unlike Citi and Paypal and everybody else, at least I don't have to worry about it not working.
Jan 30, 2018, 10:14 am
#59
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Never tried - I am happy with my 7 other financial institutions which includes Northwest Federal CU (For Your Spies Only). Have alternative cards for 2% cash back, American Airlines miles, Priority Pass access and Hilton status so Citi just offers nothing of value to me these days.
Jan 30, 2018, 9:50 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Hmmm...new angle there. Guess I'll have a look at the forum. Citi screwed up my accounts badly after they left Texas branch banking and I had to transfer accounts over to Florida. They were a general PITA so I was not unhappy to go at all after months of them linking and unlinking my large IRAs to the Gold Account every other month and charging me fees they had no right to charge.. Citi had interesting system integrity issues, from an audit and fraud perspective.
Not talking about opening a bank account but the AA card gravy train via the mailers. If you haven't frequented the Citi forum, it may worth you a few moments to quickly skim some pages - the gist is, with the right mailer, folks are getting 75K every 33 to 35 days via $3K to $4K spend. That is much more efficient than the traditional methods. I am sure you could still use 500K to 1Mil AA miles come your way if the gravy train continues (it has been 18 or more months and still going). Either find a way to hopefully generate those mailers or your good buddies on FT would gladly share their excesses with you.