GatorSmiley

I agree. Because I keep my volume at a level that I feel comfortable with, I have never been concerned about raising red flags with my bank and risking a shutdown. For me, my wally only allows 2 MOs a day, so that really limits me since I am not willing to spend my life on this....I only go once a week...and not every week....and make it part of my normal errands

I still end up with 15k to 20k UR a month once you add up my normal spend on my Chase Reserve, Chase Unlimited, and MO churn. Not to mention United miles via the Mileage PlusX app.

tuscanyx

I quit when the last WM near me stopped allowing buying mo with gc. Don’t feel like opening up bank accounts with cc if I can only charge a couple of thousands max. Miss the old days where one can do thousands of dollars every week.

Gitangali

Trying to understand what the MS attraction is here? The UR points are worth 1.2 to 1.3 cents. If you care to provide your rationale.

GatorSmiley

UR points are worth MUCH more than what you are putting them at. ThePointsGuy consistently values them at 2.2 cents each (https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/sep...ly-valuations/)

For me personally, I value them much higher. I am going to run down my redemption over the past 24 months for you. Also, at the end, I am going to go through point acquisition cost.

Redemption

Beijing to Washington DC, direct (which was a blessing) First Class United, 80k points. Sale price was $9,634, putting the redemption value at 12.04 cents per point

Washington DC to Delhi, Business Class Turkish Air, one connection in Istanbul, 80k points. Sale price was $4,024, putting the redemption value at 5.03 cents per point

Washington DC to Copenhagen, Business Class Aer Lingus and SAS, we planned the long layover in Dublin for a great day trip before a week in Copenhagen, 70k points. Sale price was $4,858, putting the redemption value at 6.94 cents per point

Paris to Washington DC, direct (which was a blessing) Business Class Air France, 62k points (I already had the extra 500 from flying economy on Delta earlier in the year). Sale price was $6,905, even with the redemption fees for AF being higher ($325), it still put the redemption value at 10.61 cents per point

Acquisition

I get most of my points through VGC, but also get points through the United MilesPlusX App and regular spend, the later two of which are zero cost.

* VGC is $3.95/$500 card. I put this on Chase Unlimited, getting me 1.5 UR per $. So, 756 points for $3.95 or 0.522 cents per point. I use GreenDot to convert some ($3 -$4k) of these VGCs into cash with no cost. However, about $5k-$6k become MOs, bringing the cost to $8.6/$1000 or 0.573 cents per point. I get 14,363 UR points per month this way.

* Dining from the Chase Sapphire Reserve garners me 1500 - 2100 UR per month based on a spend of $500 to $700 in the dining category. I don't each out every night, but I live in DC and lunch everyday is $8 - $9 alone, so add that to even one or two restaurant meals a week and you are there. These are no cost miles.

* Speaking of restaurant meals....the Miles PlusX app can easily add another 3 to 5 extra miles per dollar, on top of the 3x, at certain restaurants. My favorites are Outback, Chilis, Bonefish Grill, Applebees, and California Pizza Kitchen. These are again free miles.

* Speaking of living in DC, I take cabs or Uber/Lyft. Much cheaper than having to pay for parking. At $3 - $10/ ride and 3x to 4x points (with Chase Reserve and the MilesPlusX app), I rack up about 1000 to 1200 points per month. Again, free points.

* Then there are all those specials that constantly are going on for bonuses that you see on this forum (e.g. spend $250 at Walmart, get 2500 points).

I know that was a long response, but it lays out why the points game, including MS, still works for me.

HMPS

Great Points.

Not usual to see someone so open and detailed on here.

I am with you, I always compare acquisition costs ( including yearly CC fees...). Compare to what is the cheapest Premium cabin

For long hauls I come out ahead. I have bought AA miles on sale when bonus was 100 % bringing down the cost to 1.8 per mile. Still saves me $ 1000 min ^

fayjaimike

I also got in a bit late, slightly later than the OP. I got into Bluebird, until all the Walmarts around me started to change their ATMs. Got shut down a few times at the cash registers, felt pretty embarassing. After that, swapped between BB and Serve. Eventually got shutdown. After this, I did NW Buxx until that got shutdown. I tried the GC to MO option at 3 different Walmarts in Long Island, rejected from all 3, never tried it again. Just used that $500 GC at Amazon instead lol.

Did gain enough points to take my wife and I on our honeymoon to Japan flying business class on Asiana though (300K Chase UR for 2 RT business class seats). So overall I am very grateful for all the help I've gotten from FT and all the great posts that I've quietly stalked.

Edit: Can't forget all the SW Companion Pass flights too! Flew like crazy over the past 2 years.. even got to A-List from all the flights in the first year lol.

NoonRadar

This is only true if you were going to pay for that $9,634 flight without the points. Otherwise the actual value is the cost of the flight you were willing to pay with cash + getting a free business/1st class upgrade.

HMPS

Your logic is correct.
In my case:
1) If I can't fly J in international l/h, I don't travel.

2) To refine your logic = If the difference between what you were willing to pay & the imaginary $ 9634 is less than acquisition costs then it does not make sense. There is also the payoff of earned miles on a paid tkt.

GatorSmiley

I have heard that sort of analysis before, but ultimately don't agree with it. The premium seat has a value and you either pay for it in cash, points, a combination of the two, or you might have upgrade privileges. It is not a mythical fare. People are paying those prices for the first class seats. As the saying goes "something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it".

As for me, I certainly don't agree that it would be "cash + getting a free business/1st class upgrade." That might work for folks that get free upgrades (that are OK with them not being guaranteed). I do not get those because I don't have status with any airline and don't fly often enough on any particular airline or alliance to earn it. Even if I had status though, I would not want to wait for the upgrade to come through or hope that one was available. With points (all the flights listed above), I knew 6-10 months in advance that I had a confirmed premium seat on the flight and was able to plan the rest of my holiday accordingly. Plus, as you can see, I fly on all sorts of airlines and alliances, whereas someone would need status on multiple alliances to be comparable.

I will agree with you that you lose out on miles if you book with miles. That is why I do an analysis to see if it is cheaper to buy the premium seat with cash. For example, I got a business seat to Rome for Christmas for a price I liked ($2,400 roundtrip) and chose to pay cash (earn miles) rather than spend miles. However, in general I don't have the cheddar to pay for premium with cash. So, if I want to go premium, it is points or nothing.

Sometimes the analysis gets influenced by preferences and someone's particular situation. The example above about whether one has status and access to upgrades comes to mind. For me, I probably would not have gone on the long-haul trips if I had not had the premium seats (too long sitting in economy), so the only appropriate comparison fare is the premium seat. However, as stated above, I don't actually have the cash to pay for it, so I wouldn't have even been able to buy it. So lets just assume assume I was going to buy economy for like $800 round-trip, attributing $400 to the one-way, the valuation for that one-way ticket is still amazing.

Gitangali

For me, I don't travel frequently where I could readily use the points. For me, keeping points in your account till you have to travel in future is like staying under the hanging sword. The CC company can shut you down any time and you run the risk of losing all points. I always like to either Cash them or buy gift cards or sell the points and so my valuation of the points is accordingly. Also, if you have to get the card 2nd, 3rd time ( case in point ML) then you need to close the CC as soon the bonus is redeemed as some banks won't allow you to have 2nd card while 1st one is already open.

bulletin2007

Fair frank and interest analysis. Just two comments,
1) using Chase Freedom Unlimited to MS for UR pts is really a pain.
2) If you value your time, MS is not really good choice for you.

JudyJFLA

I did not really stop, just no way to do it in the summer in rural Montana. I leave Florida for 5 months and the whole game seems to have changed. 5Backs are gone, half of the Slack channels have even shut down that I was on. Other than CVS and the PO for minimum spend on a new credit card, I don't see anything lucrative right now. I will have to up my depression meds since this used to be my full time winter gig. There HAS to be something out there that is better!!!
Cheers!
JudyJFLA

Gitangali

I know this game is useful etc during winter months. You always have something to look forward to. There is nothing like the kick free money gives. Like I said many times, once some of these opportunities stop, they are not going to come back. Take for e.g. Red Bird, Serve loading, they are gone for ever; 5/24 and other similar rules are here to stay. It is not like these things are temporary OUT, they are out for ever.

hamokmonky

Well if you look at it that way, you should get a kick out of your job too....

Gitangali

deleted