Help w/ frozen bank account please!!!
Apr 7, 2017, 5:47 pm
#76
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: United Gold (frmer. 1k and GS), AAdvantage Platinum, Alaska MVP Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 200
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a presidentially declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122)), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
Not saying I agree aor disagree with you, since his intent was to obtain points, which could only loosely be considered "money" (which would ensue an enslaught of regulation for banks to follow) - BUT the false pretenses and promised would suggest fraud.
Nevertheless, the promise of moving to MI seems slightly irrelevant. If the CU was OK with OP opening an account from out of state, was that authorization based solely on OP's promise to the CU? If the CU wants only MI customers, they should have asked for proof or other documents corroborating the intent to take up residence in the state before allowing OP to open an account.
Apr 7, 2017, 7:19 pm
#77
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
Apr 7, 2017, 7:29 pm
#78
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Per US penal code:
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a presidentially declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122)), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
Not saying I agree aor disagree with you, since his intent was to obtain points, which could only loosely be considered "money" (which would ensue an enslaught of regulation for banks to follow) - BUT the false pretenses and promised would suggest fraud.
Nevertheless, the promise of moving to MI seems slightly irrelevant. If the CU was OK with OP opening an account from out of state, was that authorization based solely on OP's promise to the CU? If the CU wants only MI customers, they should have asked for proof or other documents corroborating the intent to take up residence in the state before allowing OP to open an account.
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a presidentially declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122)), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
Not saying I agree aor disagree with you, since his intent was to obtain points, which could only loosely be considered "money" (which would ensue an enslaught of regulation for banks to follow) - BUT the false pretenses and promised would suggest fraud.
Nevertheless, the promise of moving to MI seems slightly irrelevant. If the CU was OK with OP opening an account from out of state, was that authorization based solely on OP's promise to the CU? If the CU wants only MI customers, they should have asked for proof or other documents corroborating the intent to take up residence in the state before allowing OP to open an account.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
Apr 9, 2017, 11:16 am
#80
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 50
As soon as OP told the CU that he was moving to MI when he had no such intent he committed wire fraud and likely a money laundering violation. He also caused the FCU to commit a series of regulatory violations and that is was caused the FCU to freeze the account and ultimately close it with a debit memo to the original form of payment.
At the same time, it is likely that the FCU filed a SAR and provided a copy to Chase and that is why the Chase relationship is gone and why OP and anyone else associated with the transaction such as OP's wife may encounter problems in the future.
When OP then compounded all of this by filing complaints with various federal agencies which omitted the above frauds, the SAR would have been matched up with his complaint and now there is a record of what OP says and the transaction itself.
All in all not a big win for OP. Other financial institutions have no desire to do business with people who cost them more money in compliance than they can earn in fees.
At the same time, it is likely that the FCU filed a SAR and provided a copy to Chase and that is why the Chase relationship is gone and why OP and anyone else associated with the transaction such as OP's wife may encounter problems in the future.
When OP then compounded all of this by filing complaints with various federal agencies which omitted the above frauds, the SAR would have been matched up with his complaint and now there is a record of what OP says and the transaction itself.
All in all not a big win for OP. Other financial institutions have no desire to do business with people who cost them more money in compliance than they can earn in fees.
Apr 9, 2017, 11:19 am
#81
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 50
Irrelevant.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
Apr 9, 2017, 12:05 pm
#82
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,424
Wouldn't the 20K points that he was attempting to get with the CC funding be considered "something of value"
Apr 10, 2017, 10:01 am
#83
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: Hilton - Diamond, IHG - Spire Amb
Posts: 901
Did he do this to the bank? No? Then it doesn't appear to meet that standard. The bank account was opened through one of the accepted funding mechanisms. His cc company provided the points. There were two different parties. In fact he accurately stated his place of residence. A bank cannot base decisions based up on what someone tells them they are going to do in the future. Either you have a residency requirement or not. Everyone getting worked up about the residency component are out of line IMHO.
Apr 10, 2017, 10:06 am
#84
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: Hilton - Diamond, IHG - Spire Amb
Posts: 901
Irrelevant.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
He didn't lie about his residency according to the details. Your point one is wrong.
Point 2 - intended residency? You really think your point is defensible? In that moment for a split second he could have convinced himself that he did plan to move. Regardless, you have yet to demonstrate where intention of moving residency was valid enrollment criteria and where that violates the law. You can say I intend to go to the moon and if you never do you still could have intended for a brief moment to do so.
I'm not arguing about whether I personally would have done it, but when people try to play armchair federal prosecutor, things become laughable.
Apr 10, 2017, 3:46 pm
#85
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,108
Lol this thread has really spun out of control. I just thought I'd pop in to say that I didn't get the 20K after all, since the refund came through this morning and my statement cycles tomorrow... close but no cigar! 
I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?
I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?
Apr 10, 2017, 3:50 pm
#86
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,830
Lol this thread has really spun out of control. I just thought I'd pop in to say that I didn't get the 20K after all, since the refund came through this morning and my statement cycles tomorrow... close but no cigar! I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?
I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?
Apr 10, 2017, 4:08 pm
#87
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
Lol this thread has really spun out of control. I just thought I'd pop in to say that I didn't get the 20K after all, since the refund came through this morning and my statement cycles tomorrow... close but no cigar! I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?
I did get some points for the cash that I was able to withdraw before the freeze, though it obviously wasn't worth the trouble. Apart from the obvious account closures, how do I know if I'm "officially" in Chase's black book? Do I have to wait one year before applying for cards? Is there any negative credit impact due to accounts being closed out by the issuer?don't be too complacent that you're off the hook now. Since $20K was refunded in full to Chase, you think HCU will just write off the $200 you w/d? You may still hear from them in the next few days/weeks until this is settled. It is possible that if you don't give back the amount you withdrew, you will be reported to Chexsystem and that will be another round of problems if you don't make it right. But then if they refunded just $19,800 then it means you got a 'gift' from Chase.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:24 pm
#88
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,108
hey! not so fast....
don't be too complacent that you're off the hook now. Since $20K was refunded in full to Chase, you think HCU will just write off the $200 you w/d? You may still hear from them in the next few days/weeks until this is settled. It is possible that if you don't give back the amount you withdrew, you will be reported to Chexsystem and that will be another round of problems if you don't make it right. But then if they refunded just $19,800 then it means you got a 'gift' from Chase.
don't be too complacent that you're off the hook now. Since $20K was refunded in full to Chase, you think HCU will just write off the $200 you w/d? You may still hear from them in the next few days/weeks until this is settled. It is possible that if you don't give back the amount you withdrew, you will be reported to Chexsystem and that will be another round of problems if you don't make it right. But then if they refunded just $19,800 then it means you got a 'gift' from Chase.
Apr 10, 2017, 9:08 pm
#89
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Apr 11, 2017, 9:36 am
#90
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 161
Irrelevant.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.
The guy lied about his residency or intended residency in order to obtain an account. He did that over a phone line (wire). End of story. Federal felony. The rest is all window dressing.
Then he went and complained to the feds that he had committed a crime and people were mean to him about it.