Last edit by: Travelz
This is a new thread for 2017. The previous discussion can be found here.
READ the posts in this thread before asking questions. Many have already been answered.
10k per day limit including fees - must fill out a form (use cards as a budget tool or whatever you want to put)
Check the Simon website for locations.
VGC issued by meta for 3.95 - Count your cards before you leave the mall
When ordering online, Simon uses GCM.
READ the posts in this thread before asking questions. Many have already been answered.
10k per day limit including fees - must fill out a form (use cards as a budget tool or whatever you want to put)
Check the Simon website for locations.
VGC issued by meta for 3.95 - Count your cards before you leave the mall
When ordering online, Simon uses GCM.
Simon Mall Gift Cards(2017-2018)
#631
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
It's really $200 for $10k points, since you could have done the same MS on a 2x card, or even better on 3x Discover promo. I've never seen hotel redemptions come even close to 1-1.5x unless you really think the overpriced US chains are worth their asking prices. I suppose it could be worth it for the miles transfer, as you earn 1.25x but even then, with award availability lately and rising award charts, it's hard to jusitfy.
It is very YMMV - all depends on how you travel, where you travel. One chooses what works best for own situation.
Our hotel redemption routinely come in doubling and more than the cost of the points Sometimes we get 3x or more of the cost to acquire those pts. It works for the trips we take. 2x CB never comes close.
For expensive properties, any Marriott hotels in London is Cat 9 at 45K pts and routinely costs 400+ GBPs. 45K is 15K SPG which cost $150 for a $600 a night hotel, before taxes. London hotel taxes are very high fyi,
For low level properties, Proteas in South Africa ranging from Cat 1 to Cat 5 but many of them are at Cat 2, 7.5K - that is 2.5K SPG which cost $25. Hotels often are at $100 to $150 range.
You can do the math yourself for the above examples on how 2x CB would fare.
Here is another example that is closer to "home" in North America. We used Springhill at Kalispell MT twice last Sept when we visited Glacier NP area. It was a 10K Marriott property then. that translated to 3.4K SPG pts or $34. The cheapest prepaid rates even in Sept was $200 and up. You can do the math there too and compare the CB card.
Dont forget that point redemption does not pay taxes other than small city taxes, nor service fees. Cash payment, even point + cash, the cash portion, would incur taxes which often is 10 to 15% or more.
Let's also talk about the Marriott TP - we redeemed a Cat 6 package for 120K AS miles and a 7 nights Cat 6 Cert in late 2015. 300K equal to 100K SPG equal to $1K. 120K AS miles gets you a round trip business class on CX via HKG with a stopover both ways if you prefer. Or if you find a QF itinerary it is only 100K r/t and one could either do a stopover both directions inside Australia, at New Zealand, or a stop at LAX then head for MEX a few months later and end your trip there (a friend just did this redemption last month). And you still have a 7 nights cert you can use. We used ours at Marriott SkyCity in Jan 2017. Hotel rate was around $250 a night.
So we are talking about a $1000 cost would get you a round trip ticket to down under in business class plus a 7 nights hotel stay. I dont believe you could fund that with a 2x card on $`100K spend, even you get $2K out of it.
You may have seen a commonality now - that is, the 1 to 3 ratio is a great arbitration tool that no CB would ever comes close. Once that inequality is eliminated, then we would have to evaluate the situation again.
Last edited by Happy; Mar 29, 2018 at 4:21 pm Reason: T
#632
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: All of them
Posts: 1,663
You're incorrect....if you buy 10k worth of GC at the mall, you will spend $79 + about $7 in MO fees at WM to clear them out. For that effort and expense you get EITHER $201.60 OR about 10k SPG points. Your logical flaw is to count the cost in the cashback scenario but ignore it with the points. I bought $201 cashfor $86, you bought 10k SPG points for $86. So now we compare the values of what we got out of this activity....which is $201 vs 10K pts.
Furthermore, if you're a moderately well to do middle class person, like many in this community, you probably pay around 30-40% marginal tax rate. This effectively means that any CB profit is multiplied by around 1.5x when compared to just working more at your job/business. So my $110 CB profit is really more like ~$160.
I'm sure the are some examples here and there, where you can get good value out of SPG points for somewhere you really need to go, and where you have no choice but to pay through the nose, and a Marriot/Spg hotel saves the day. I don't travel to overpriced cities nor do I think $600+ a night is worth it or justifiable. I can always find an airbnb or much cheaper hotel that works just fine. Also, if low tier hotels were all over the place in National Parks around US, I'll be all about hotel card MS....but I just did a road trip around Arizona and UTah and not once encountered anything from a chain besides Best Western or similar....and they were all under $100 anyway. I would probably find more value in Miles transfer personally, but I have more miles than I can use now so it's not a priority.
Furthermore, if you're a moderately well to do middle class person, like many in this community, you probably pay around 30-40% marginal tax rate. This effectively means that any CB profit is multiplied by around 1.5x when compared to just working more at your job/business. So my $110 CB profit is really more like ~$160.
I'm sure the are some examples here and there, where you can get good value out of SPG points for somewhere you really need to go, and where you have no choice but to pay through the nose, and a Marriot/Spg hotel saves the day. I don't travel to overpriced cities nor do I think $600+ a night is worth it or justifiable. I can always find an airbnb or much cheaper hotel that works just fine. Also, if low tier hotels were all over the place in National Parks around US, I'll be all about hotel card MS....but I just did a road trip around Arizona and UTah and not once encountered anything from a chain besides Best Western or similar....and they were all under $100 anyway. I would probably find more value in Miles transfer personally, but I have more miles than I can use now so it's not a priority.
#633
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 123
I have a positive tale of making sure your information is legible. The manager at my local Simon called my cell phone to let me know their system was down in case I was planning to come in, he said he'd call back once it was up and running. I went the following day thinking he must have forgotten and surely it was fixed; still down but he called me a few hours later to let me know it was back up and running. He said he was just calling his "regulars" but that was some great customer service.
#634
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 4
I am getting conflicting answers. Can I still use GCM and Simon VGC to meet min spend on Amex Biz Plat and Amex Hilton Biz? In the first half of 2017, before I took a hiatus, I was able to successfully do it by mixing it up with organic spend and never buy more than 2.5k/day (5k/month) of GC at a time.
#635
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,668
I am getting conflicting answers. Can I still use GCM and Simon VGC to meet min spend on Amex Biz Plat and Amex Hilton Biz? In the first half of 2017, before I took a hiatus, I was able to successfully do it by mixing it up with organic spend and never buy more than 2.5k/day (5k/month) of GC at a time.
#637
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 215
Looks like Simon spend is not counting towards Delta MQD threshold. Even though I hit 60k on Reserve biz card, MQD spend shows 0-1k.
But I got 2 * 15k MQM's. Anybody else notice this.
But I got 2 * 15k MQM's. Anybody else notice this.
#638
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
You're incorrect....if you buy 10k worth of GC at the mall, you will spend $79 + about $7 in MO fees at WM to clear them out. For that effort and expense you get EITHER $201.60 OR about 10k SPG points. Your logical flaw is to count the cost in the cashback scenario but ignore it with the points. I bought $201 cashfor $86, you bought 10k SPG points for $86. So now we compare the values of what we got out of this activity....which is $201 vs 10K pts.
Furthermore, if you're a moderately well to do middle class person, like many in this community, you probably pay around 30-40% marginal tax rate. This effectively means that any CB profit is multiplied by around 1.5x when compared to just working more at your job/business. So my $110 CB profit is really more like ~$160.
I'm sure the are some examples here and there, where you can get good value out of SPG points for somewhere you really need to go, and where you have no choice but to pay through the nose, and a Marriot/Spg hotel saves the day. I don't travel to overpriced cities nor do I think $600+ a night is worth it or justifiable. I can always find an airbnb or much cheaper hotel that works just fine. Also, if low tier hotels were all over the place in National Parks around US, I'll be all about hotel card MS....but I just did a road trip around Arizona and UTah and not once encountered anything from a chain besides Best Western or similar....and they were all under $100 anyway. I would probably find more value in Miles transfer personally, but I have more miles than I can use now so it's not a priority.
Furthermore, if you're a moderately well to do middle class person, like many in this community, you probably pay around 30-40% marginal tax rate. This effectively means that any CB profit is multiplied by around 1.5x when compared to just working more at your job/business. So my $110 CB profit is really more like ~$160.
I'm sure the are some examples here and there, where you can get good value out of SPG points for somewhere you really need to go, and where you have no choice but to pay through the nose, and a Marriot/Spg hotel saves the day. I don't travel to overpriced cities nor do I think $600+ a night is worth it or justifiable. I can always find an airbnb or much cheaper hotel that works just fine. Also, if low tier hotels were all over the place in National Parks around US, I'll be all about hotel card MS....but I just did a road trip around Arizona and UTah and not once encountered anything from a chain besides Best Western or similar....and they were all under $100 anyway. I would probably find more value in Miles transfer personally, but I have more miles than I can use now so it's not a priority.
1) many of us dont have WMTs that still take no name Gebits, hence it would no be $7 for $10K, it is more like $18 instead. At least that is how much the grocery chain here charges.
2) 30-40% marginal tax rate should not be still in middle class, nor should not be even bothered to go thru this exercise as it is not without intangible costs - your time and energy, just to point out the obvious.
There are folks who have high net worth yet in the low teen tax brackets, if they know how to manage their finance. I just heard a complaint from a friend - they complained their tax payment went up a lot because they are now having SS income which 85% is taxable. You can google to find out the bracket as IRS finally made it much easier with only 2 income ranges to determine taxable SS income.
Before they started taking SS, they live very well, but not on any income in the sense that is subj to tax. They own second home in one of the international world-class cities fwiw. Their marginal tax is way way below the 30-40% you cited, even after adding the SS income.
3) London is a world-class city and like any world-class city it is expensive but not overpriced, just being expensive due many factors. You can think NYC or DC, or SFO as equivalent.
Airbnb does not always work. You also would not find much offerings that is below $300 if you want to stay closer to the city itself and not like 30 min metro ride away.
Sure you can find a $200 hotel in some fringe locations but that also means it is fairly low end, plus you most likely would need to pay cash rate. What is the logic that you are willing to pay $200 cash to stay in much lesser hotel versus paying (indirectly) $150 to stay at 5 star hotel with the commensurate services and facilities? Better yet, because of enough spend on your SPG card you earned SPG Gold thus translated to Marriott Gold which give you lounge access, that would take care of your breakfast, afternoon snack and often enough for dinner, plus the drinks that you may consume (that is what you would find in the full service Marriott properties. When you stay at low priced hotel or Airbnb, you still have to eat, right? That is the added cost that you dont incur when you have lounge access.
Those of us who are far more interested in miles and points over CB because we spend a ton of discretionary income in travel even after the help of miles and points. Not to mention the miles and points make travel so much more comfortable, especially on long haul international flights.
As ALWAYS, there should NOT be any blanket statement to argue whether CB would offer better value than miles and points - it all DEPENDS ON how you use your miles and points, for the travels you do, whether it is wanted or needed.
However, when you look at value proposition, you should take a broader view.
Last edited by Happy; Apr 2, 2018 at 12:02 am
#639
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
I am getting conflicting answers. Can I still use GCM and Simon VGC to meet min spend on Amex Biz Plat and Amex Hilton Biz? In the first half of 2017, before I took a hiatus, I was able to successfully do it by mixing it up with organic spend and never buy more than 2.5k/day (5k/month) of GC at a time.
Just google it you should find enough DPs all over the net. It you are counting on it you better find another ways if you still want to earn bonus of any kind.
#640
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: All of them
Posts: 1,663
Ok, I'm done with this discussion, because YOU now are making assumptions about MY travel. Like assuming that just because it's lower rate cash paid hotel, it's some dump and I'm cramping my style. Nothing is farther from the truth. Try going to SE Asia, where just about every good cash hotel is well under $100 and pretty nice, and only if you're spoiled with name brand hotels would you spend more.
I too, spend tons of money outside of miles on travel, but I save it on more meaningful experiences, like scuba diving or paying for a guided trek to see some interesting mountain landscape, instead of wasting it on a 5-star vs. 2-star hotel.
Regarding miles and comfort when flying, I'm all for biz class redemptions, but consideirng the ever increasing devaluations, it's hard to justify. Especially United, for example. They don't even let you use the lounge on arrival in US, if you have a connection. What kind of crap is that. I've started flying coach more and more, and instead using my UR points as cash for car rentals.
I too, spend tons of money outside of miles on travel, but I save it on more meaningful experiences, like scuba diving or paying for a guided trek to see some interesting mountain landscape, instead of wasting it on a 5-star vs. 2-star hotel.
Regarding miles and comfort when flying, I'm all for biz class redemptions, but consideirng the ever increasing devaluations, it's hard to justify. Especially United, for example. They don't even let you use the lounge on arrival in US, if you have a connection. What kind of crap is that. I've started flying coach more and more, and instead using my UR points as cash for car rentals.
#641
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: All of them
Posts: 1,663
How much the fees are, and how much GC cost is irrelevant. Even if they're free. The fact remains, you're trading $200+ (or $300 if you have a 3x card) in exchange for 10k SPG points, and that's the trade that VERY rarely makes sense.
#642
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,408
Btw, this statement is irrelevant. You clearly didn't read my logic. If you plan to compare apples to apples, you need to compare my $202 cashback to your 10k SPG miles earned from the SAME activity.....that is buying $10k in gift cards. The previous poster started comparing my AFTER COST profit, to the gross earning of 10k miles.
How much the fees are, and how much GC cost is irrelevant. Even if they're free. The fact remains, you're trading $200+ (or $300 if you have a 3x card) in exchange for 10k SPG points, and that's the trade that VERY rarely makes sense.
How much the fees are, and how much GC cost is irrelevant. Even if they're free. The fact remains, you're trading $200+ (or $300 if you have a 3x card) in exchange for 10k SPG points, and that's the trade that VERY rarely makes sense.
#643
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/DFW/JFK/LGA/EWR/MIA
Posts: 1,073
+1 @ Simon plus tons of mix spending. All my Simon in person purchases received both MR and SPG Points last week when the statements closed. Now, last time I MS a signing bonus for Amex was the 20K MR Points for the Amex Blue BP when it launched @ Simon too, and no problem either.
Looks like bonuses are the problem now and not normal point accrual, when MSing with Amex.
Looks like bonuses are the problem now and not normal point accrual, when MSing with Amex.
Last edited by GundamWing01; Apr 6, 2018 at 1:59 am
#644
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 122
Went to my usual Simon Mall yesterday but was told that no $3.95 fee VGCs are available to sell to me. Only available VGCs are on the rack but each has a fee of $4.95. Anyone else encountered this in other SMs?
#645
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, HH DIA, Hertz PC, GE + Pre✓, Amazon Super Special Prime
Posts: 1,007
Was 3.95 last week at my local fishing hole for the variable cards they keep in the lock bag, Silver/Grey theme. Will check again this week when I stock up, off the rack vs out of the bag fees, and see what I am charged.