Jan 2, 2017, 7:37 pm
Last edit by: Marathon Man
NEW TO MS: Do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2016 version of this thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1737819-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2016-a-39.html#post27694986, the 2015 version of the thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1642283-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2015-a.html
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending-719/
Note: the 2016 version of this thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1737819-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2016-a-39.html#post27694986, the 2015 version of the thread is here: www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1642283-new-manufactured-spending-start-here-2015-a.html
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here(2017-2018)
May 11, 2017, 12:53 pm
#181
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 613
Thinking about this further, using a freedom card doesn't really work because then the spend is on the freedom card. The whole point would be to meet the spending requirements of a new card to get the bonus, so I'd have to use the new card to make the purchase. I'm fine with spending $6 per $500 to do that. $60 to meet a $5000 spend for 60,000 miles is $0.001 per mile, a great deal, just wanted to be sure there wasn't a simple way to save myself that $60 that I was missing.
May 12, 2017, 10:50 am
#182
Join Date: May 2015
Programs: BAEC, AAdvantage, AMEX Plat
Posts: 108
I am all for optimization, but I would like to point out that $5.95 for $500 of MS isn't terrible in and of itself. Say you are churning on CFU and also have a CSR, you would get 757 UR points (504.95 x 1.5).
Using this in the most obvious way possible - transferring to CSR and then booking travel would give you $11.35. That is a $5.40 profit on $500.
Granted that the above is a specific case, but still shows that your method of churn is still profitable. Of course, any optimization is always good.
Using this in the most obvious way possible - transferring to CSR and then booking travel would give you $11.35. That is a $5.40 profit on $500.
Granted that the above is a specific case, but still shows that your method of churn is still profitable. Of course, any optimization is always good.
May 12, 2017, 12:14 pm
#183
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 542
I am all for optimization, but I would like to point out that $5.95 for $500 of MS isn't terrible in and of itself. Say you are churning on CFU and also have a CSR, you would get 757 UR points (504.95 x 1.5).
Using this in the most obvious way possible - transferring to CSR and then booking travel would give you $11.35. That is a $5.40 profit on $500.
Granted that the above is a specific case, but still shows that your method of churn is still profitable. Of course, any optimization is always good.
Using this in the most obvious way possible - transferring to CSR and then booking travel would give you $11.35. That is a $5.40 profit on $500.
Granted that the above is a specific case, but still shows that your method of churn is still profitable. Of course, any optimization is always good.
May 13, 2017, 12:32 pm
#184
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Before my very first MS run, please confirm my process/economics are right
Hi. I'd like to go on my very first MS run -- and would appreciate confirmation that my process/economics are right.
Any and all tips welcome. Thank you in advance.
PROCESS
Step 1 - Visit drug store. Buy 6 $500 One Vanilla Gift Cards, each with a $4.95 activation fee. Buy 4 of the 6 with a credit card that offers 2% cash backs. Buy 2 of the 6 with a credit card that earns points.
Step 2 - Visit Post Office. Purchase 3 separate MOs for $998.40, each with a $1.60 processing fee. Use split payments to pay with the 6 OVGCs.
Step 3 - Visit Bank ATM (or teller). Use the 3 MOs to pay off the credit cards.
ECONOMICS
Spend -- 6 OVGCs X $504.95 each = $3,029.70
Receive as MO -- 3 MOs X $1,0000 - $1.60 each = 2,995.20
Receive as Cash Back -- 4 OVGCs X $504.95 X 2% cash back credit card = $40.40
Receive as Miles/Points -- 2 OVGCs X $504.95 X 1 point = 1,010 miles/points
Net Earnings -- $5.90 (= $2,995.20 + $40.40 - $3,029.70) and 1,010
Thoughts? Suggestions on how to improve my process (e.g. buying online at a specific website to save time, or buying at a specific grocery store to facilitate greater cash back) or economics (e.g. buying at a specific grocery store with a specific credit card that offers 5% cash back)? Pitfalls to avoid?
Thank you again in advance.
Any and all tips welcome. Thank you in advance.
PROCESS
Step 1 - Visit drug store. Buy 6 $500 One Vanilla Gift Cards, each with a $4.95 activation fee. Buy 4 of the 6 with a credit card that offers 2% cash backs. Buy 2 of the 6 with a credit card that earns points.
Step 2 - Visit Post Office. Purchase 3 separate MOs for $998.40, each with a $1.60 processing fee. Use split payments to pay with the 6 OVGCs.
Step 3 - Visit Bank ATM (or teller). Use the 3 MOs to pay off the credit cards.
ECONOMICS
Spend -- 6 OVGCs X $504.95 each = $3,029.70
Receive as MO -- 3 MOs X $1,0000 - $1.60 each = 2,995.20
Receive as Cash Back -- 4 OVGCs X $504.95 X 2% cash back credit card = $40.40
Receive as Miles/Points -- 2 OVGCs X $504.95 X 1 point = 1,010 miles/points
Net Earnings -- $5.90 (= $2,995.20 + $40.40 - $3,029.70) and 1,010
Thoughts? Suggestions on how to improve my process (e.g. buying online at a specific website to save time, or buying at a specific grocery store to facilitate greater cash back) or economics (e.g. buying at a specific grocery store with a specific credit card that offers 5% cash back)? Pitfalls to avoid?
Thank you again in advance.
May 13, 2017, 12:49 pm
#185
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,837
Hi. I'd like to go on my very first MS run -- and would appreciate confirmation that my process/economics are right.
Any and all tips welcome. Thank you in advance.
PROCESS
Step 1 - Visit drug store. Buy 6 $500 One Vanilla Gift Cards, each with a $4.95 activation fee. Buy 4 of the 6 with a credit card that offers 2% cash backs. Buy 2 of the 6 with a credit card that earns points.
Step 2 - Visit Post Office. Purchase 3 separate MOs for $998.40, each with a $1.60 processing fee. Use split payments to pay with the 6 OVGCs.
Step 3 - Visit Bank ATM (or teller). Use the 3 MOs to pay off the credit cards.
ECONOMICS
Spend -- 6 OVGCs X $504.95 each = $3,029.70
Receive as MO -- 3 MOs X $1,0000 - $1.60 each = 2,995.20
Receive as Cash Back -- 4 OVGCs X $504.95 X 2% cash back credit card = $40.40
Receive as Miles/Points -- 2 OVGCs X $504.95 X 1 point = 1,010 miles/points
Net Earnings -- $5.90 (= $2,995.20 + $40.40 - $3,029.70) and 1,010
Thoughts? Suggestions on how to improve my process (e.g. buying online at a specific website to save time, or buying at a specific grocery store to facilitate greater cash back) or economics (e.g. buying at a specific grocery store with a specific credit card that offers 5% cash back)? Pitfalls to avoid?
Thank you again in advance.
Any and all tips welcome. Thank you in advance.
PROCESS
Step 1 - Visit drug store. Buy 6 $500 One Vanilla Gift Cards, each with a $4.95 activation fee. Buy 4 of the 6 with a credit card that offers 2% cash backs. Buy 2 of the 6 with a credit card that earns points.
Step 2 - Visit Post Office. Purchase 3 separate MOs for $998.40, each with a $1.60 processing fee. Use split payments to pay with the 6 OVGCs.
Step 3 - Visit Bank ATM (or teller). Use the 3 MOs to pay off the credit cards.
ECONOMICS
Spend -- 6 OVGCs X $504.95 each = $3,029.70
Receive as MO -- 3 MOs X $1,0000 - $1.60 each = 2,995.20
Receive as Cash Back -- 4 OVGCs X $504.95 X 2% cash back credit card = $40.40
Receive as Miles/Points -- 2 OVGCs X $504.95 X 1 point = 1,010 miles/points
Net Earnings -- $5.90 (= $2,995.20 + $40.40 - $3,029.70) and 1,010
Thoughts? Suggestions on how to improve my process (e.g. buying online at a specific website to save time, or buying at a specific grocery store to facilitate greater cash back) or economics (e.g. buying at a specific grocery store with a specific credit card that offers 5% cash back)? Pitfalls to avoid?
Thank you again in advance.
May 13, 2017, 12:51 pm
#186
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: S Cal
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, United Silver, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,142
Before I buy a OV, I check 2 things:
1. Flip over the package. Is it issued by Bancorp? This gives me more potential liquidation options in my area. MetaBank Vanilla is not as well liked in my area, but will work at some places.
2. Check the packaging. If it looks at all tampered with, I choose a different packet. If I do find a packet that is not perfect, I turn that in at the register (yes, I care about my fellow MSers).
Remember that some drugstores have a purchase limit of 1K per day and will want to run your DL through the register.
One more tip: I have learned to open the packaging quickly to be sure the VGC inside looks perfect. I had one experience (at a WM, buying a Sunny) where the packet looked perfect but the card inside was clearly tampered with. I waited about an hour before I opened that packet, which was a mistake. It took about 2 months and much aggravation to get my money back. MS is not a risk-free enterprise.
1. Flip over the package. Is it issued by Bancorp? This gives me more potential liquidation options in my area. MetaBank Vanilla is not as well liked in my area, but will work at some places.
2. Check the packaging. If it looks at all tampered with, I choose a different packet. If I do find a packet that is not perfect, I turn that in at the register (yes, I care about my fellow MSers).
Remember that some drugstores have a purchase limit of 1K per day and will want to run your DL through the register.
One more tip: I have learned to open the packaging quickly to be sure the VGC inside looks perfect. I had one experience (at a WM, buying a Sunny) where the packet looked perfect but the card inside was clearly tampered with. I waited about an hour before I opened that packet, which was a mistake. It took about 2 months and much aggravation to get my money back. MS is not a risk-free enterprise.
Last edited by GetawaysRus; May 13, 2017 at 1:14 pm
May 13, 2017, 1:25 pm
#187
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 498
Exactly this, do not go big your first time. What happens if you get to the PO and they don't accept GCs for MOs? Also you will likely run into a problem buying $3k at a drugstore in 1 days as well, unless you have ways around it. Looks like you need to do a little more research.
May 13, 2017, 5:09 pm
#188
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Thank for the tips before my first MS run
Much appreciated!
May 14, 2017, 3:58 am
#189
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Exactly this, do not go big your first time. What happens if you get to the PO and they don't accept GCs for MOs? Also you will likely run into a problem buying $3k at a drugstore in 1 days as well, unless you have ways around it. Looks like you need to do a little more research.
May 14, 2017, 11:57 pm
#190
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 9
Newbie Question
If I buy gift cards from grocery store (small, ~$200 but multiple transactions), does my bank know that I'm churning on gift cards? What about websites such as giftcards.com? Does it mean I'm exposed to less risk by buying gift cards at a grocery store?
May 15, 2017, 6:29 pm
#192
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 10
I've liquidated quite a bit in January and haven't touched any OVGC from CVS in a while. Purchased 1k yesterday and went to the PO and tried to liquidate it, and the both cards were denied. Is there a new policy or shift with OV no longer being accepted at the PO or is it spotty?
May 16, 2017, 4:44 am
#193
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Spg Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,578
I've liquidated quite a bit in January and haven't touched any OVGC from CVS in a while. Purchased 1k yesterday and went to the PO and tried to liquidate it, and the both cards were denied. Is there a new policy or shift with OV no longer being accepted at the PO or is it spotty?
May 19, 2017, 5:49 am
#194
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
May 21, 2017, 1:10 pm
#195
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 59
do you split the 8k among various ccs? being new, i'm wary of doing this even with 1k/month on the chase freedom...because who actually spends that much at a drugstore?