Stolen Gift cards in mail room
Apr 13, 2016, 12:29 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 291
This.
Packages are stolen from people's front porches all the time. It's on the local news constantly.
Amex fulfilled their responsibilities.
UPS fulfilled their responsibilities.
Macy's fulfilled their responsibilities.
All of MS involves some risk. Some of it involves more risk.
I'd say that ordering something worth $2800 (anything - in this case it was Amex gift cards, but it could have been a diamond ring) and having that left on your doorstep in an area where anyone could grab it, is very, very risky.
At this point, this may simply be a police matter. Something was stolen from your (widely open) mail room. I don't know about where you live, but where I live, if I called the police and told them I ordered something online, UPS delivered it, but it was stolen from my doorstep, they would tell me to go file a form online to report the theft, and then I would probably never hear from them (they don't investigate minor property crimes).
You can try UPS, but I doubt they will do anything - they did what they were told, deliver a parcel. The seller didn't tell them to require a signature. If you go to Amex, they will probably tell you that you should have chosen a more secure delivery option - they did what you asked them to: send you something.
It sucks, but I don't think UPS, Amex, Macys, or your apartment building is likely to do much for you here.
Packages are stolen from people's front porches all the time. It's on the local news constantly.
Amex fulfilled their responsibilities.
UPS fulfilled their responsibilities.
Macy's fulfilled their responsibilities.
All of MS involves some risk. Some of it involves more risk.
I'd say that ordering something worth $2800 (anything - in this case it was Amex gift cards, but it could have been a diamond ring) and having that left on your doorstep in an area where anyone could grab it, is very, very risky.
At this point, this may simply be a police matter. Something was stolen from your (widely open) mail room. I don't know about where you live, but where I live, if I called the police and told them I ordered something online, UPS delivered it, but it was stolen from my doorstep, they would tell me to go file a form online to report the theft, and then I would probably never hear from them (they don't investigate minor property crimes).
You can try UPS, but I doubt they will do anything - they did what they were told, deliver a parcel. The seller didn't tell them to require a signature. If you go to Amex, they will probably tell you that you should have chosen a more secure delivery option - they did what you asked them to: send you something.
It sucks, but I don't think UPS, Amex, Macys, or your apartment building is likely to do much for you here.
By the way, does anybody know any service where we can set up a big (like 2-3ft x 2-3ft big) PO box so that cases like this won't happen?
Apr 13, 2016, 12:38 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Tit, Hilton Diamond, BA Gold, Carlson Gold, UA*S,
Posts: 1,363
You need to go to the police... then with the report, submit your Amex clam again... and hopefully you'll have better luck.
In 2011 with the US Mint, $1,000 of coins went missing despite UPS saying it had been signed for.
I went straight to the cops and filed the claim with Citibank.
My $1,000 was returned to my card... and presumably someone else got away with some cold, hard, cash! Literally!
In 2011 with the US Mint, $1,000 of coins went missing despite UPS saying it had been signed for.
I went straight to the cops and filed the claim with Citibank.
My $1,000 was returned to my card... and presumably someone else got away with some cold, hard, cash! Literally!
Apr 13, 2016, 1:01 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
Now if you got a slip on your door saying signature required, and sign it saying "leave in mailroom", then you become responsible, but otherwise no.
I would indeed pursue Amex again.
Apr 13, 2016, 1:06 pm
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
You need to go to the police... then with the report, submit your Amex clam again... and hopefully you'll have better luck.
In 2011 with the US Mint, $1,000 of coins went missing despite UPS saying it had been signed for.
I went straight to the cops and filed the claim with Citibank.
My $1,000 was returned to my card... and presumably someone else got away with some cold, hard, cash! Literally!
In 2011 with the US Mint, $1,000 of coins went missing despite UPS saying it had been signed for.
I went straight to the cops and filed the claim with Citibank.
My $1,000 was returned to my card... and presumably someone else got away with some cold, hard, cash! Literally!
Did you first attempt to file the dispute with Citibank without the police report?
This order was placed on February 24th and the cards were delivered by UPS on the 25th. no email/update or anything was ever sent out from AMEX gift card department. The cards were stolen/used at local Macys on the 27th.
I'm hoping it's not too late for me to file this police report.
Apr 13, 2016, 1:10 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 97
UPS Store can do that for you. Probably FedEx office as well. They will sign for any packages addressed to you and place them in your box or if they are too large they will notify you that they are in and bring them to you from the back.
Apr 13, 2016, 1:13 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
Actually, yes, the seller is generally responsible for getting the product into the buyer's hands. They are the ones with the contract with the shipper, including specifying insurance, requirement for a signature, etc. AMEX can go after the seller, contact the police to go after the thief, or just eat the loss.
Now if you got a slip on your door saying signature required, and sign it saying "leave in mailroom", then you become responsible, but otherwise no.
I would indeed pursue Amex again.
Now if you got a slip on your door saying signature required, and sign it saying "leave in mailroom", then you become responsible, but otherwise no.
I would indeed pursue Amex again.
I can't stress enough the lack of communication with this. The ONLY communication that I recieved for this was :
"""
Hello,
We just wanted to let you know that we've shipped your Card order #120XXXX0.
SPECIAL OFFER:
No purchase fee on your next order
Enter Code EMSVCA upon checkout to receive 100% off the purchase fee on every order through 08/30/2016
Total Card Value:
$2800.00
Purchase Charges:
$0.00
Delivery Charges:
$0.00
Order Total:
$2800.00
Shipping Method:
Rush
Payment Method:
American Express
Purchase Additional Gift Card
In the event you have any questions or need assistance with your order, please call us at 866-268-0582 and reference the order number above.
Delivery times vary according to the selected shipping method shown above.
For Popular Gift Cards and Business Gift Cards please allow 2-4 business days for Rush, 3-5 business days for Expedited and 6-10 business days for Standard.
For Custom Message and Personalized Cards please allow 6-8 business days for Rush, 7-9 business days for Expedited and 10-14 business days for Standard.
Business days include M-F and exclude holidays and weekends. Actual delivery times are subject to order information verification, processing or custom product printing and carrier transit timeframes. Please allow for an additional day for remote address delivery.
Thank you for your business.
Sincerely,
American Express Customer Care
"""""""""
It clearly states that RUSH delivery entails a 3-5 day shipping period. By that time the cards were already stolen and used. If i'm going strictly by the latest update they sent me then there would have been no reasonable expectation for me to even sit in the mail room open area all day waiting with an armed guard for this package.
Also, i've ordered cards in the past and they've always been left at my door on the 9th floor (in hindsight this was risky also but certainly less negligent) and always received email notifications from AMEX.
Apr 13, 2016, 2:17 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
Update. i stand corrected. this was the only other communication sent to me.
below is the approval email that i received at 10:04am EST on feb 24
The shipping email was recieved one hour later at 11:08am
The two emails provided were the only verification/notification/updates/confirmations i received at all regarding this order
"""""
Hello,
We just wanted to let you know that we have approved your Card order #120XXXX0.
SPECIAL OFFER:
No purchase fee on your next order
Enter Code EMSVCA upon checkout to receive 100% off the purchase fee on every order through 08/30/2016
Total Card Value:
$2800.00
Purchase Charges:
$0.00
Delivery Charges:
$0.00
Order Total:
$2800.00
Shipping Method:
Rush
Payment Method:
American Express
Purchase Additional Gift Card
In the event you have any questions or need assistance with your order, please call us at 866-268-0582 and reference the order number above.
Delivery times vary according to the selected shipping method shown above.
For Popular Gift Cards and Business Gift Cards please allow 2-4 business days for Rush, 3-5 business days for Expedited and 6-10 business days for Standard.
For Custom Message and Personalized Cards please allow 6-8 business days for Rush, 7-9 business days for Expedited and 10-14 business days for Standard.
Business days include M-F and exclude holidays and weekends. Actual delivery times are subject to order information verification, processing or custom product printing and carrier transit timeframes. Please allow for an additional day for remote address delivery.
Thank you for your business.
Sincerely,
American Express Customer Care"""""
Apr 13, 2016, 2:51 pm
#24
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
Apr 13, 2016, 3:03 pm
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
Actually, yes, the seller is generally responsible for getting the product into the buyer's hands. They are the ones with the contract with the shipper, including specifying insurance, requirement for a signature, etc. AMEX can go after the seller, contact the police to go after the thief, or just eat the loss.
Now if you got a slip on your door saying signature required, and sign it saying "leave in mailroom", then you become responsible, but otherwise no.
I would indeed pursue Amex again.
Now if you got a slip on your door saying signature required, and sign it saying "leave in mailroom", then you become responsible, but otherwise no.
I would indeed pursue Amex again.
Apr 13, 2016, 3:15 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
Are you fairly certain from experience that this is the case? clearly there are conflicting opinions over this topic thus far.
I already went through the dispute process and they sent me a copy of the UPS tracking number and delivery (to mail room) confirmation, along with my sales order from AMEX gift cards (mailed from Salt lake city UT)
Apparently this is the evidence that AMEX dispute department is trying to justify using to warrant the charges being my responsibility.
Anybody know a direct channel or line to the actual team(s) at AMEX that do the investigating? so that i can at least state my case. I suspect whoever is processing these disputes over the phone is not providing much details on my behalf. Surely without any notes, i can see how AMEX investigators would look at the evidence as me having received the cards and used them at MACYS and me just being inaccurate in my dispute.
Apr 13, 2016, 3:18 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
there is no camera's in the room. if you get in the front door you have access to all the mail that is not too large to fit into the USPS provided (small) mailboxes. only USPS has the key to our small 'locker' for normal sized stamped envelopes and magazines.
This is another issue I will be taking up with my building management but it falls on deaf ears. Its gotten to the point where the post office refuses to deliver packages most of the time to anybody in our building.
Apr 13, 2016, 4:12 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
let's now take the side of business owners, how will any company know that a person didn't receive the GCs sent to him? That's why I suggested the idea of going to the Macy's store and talk to the store manager to let them know that your GCs were used at their store on certain date(s) and time. If there are CCTVs that can show the person(s) who used it, you can then present that as evidence to am3x. Better yet, if you recognize the person(s) if they're living in the same building, you can file a case of theft against them. It can be a lot of work but if you want to get your money back, you have to do what you have to.
If it would suffice to tell a company that one didn't get the GCs they ordered, and they get a full refund/replacement, dishonest people will do that to get "free money" from companies. But if you go the store where GCs were used and file police report, your willingness to go through all that may prove to the company(or at least show them) that you're not trying to scam them.
btw, aside from USPS, UPS also has po boxes for rent.
Apr 13, 2016, 4:29 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Northwest, United
Posts: 3,256
Now let's now take the side of business owners, how will any company know that a person didn't receive the GCs sent to him?...
If it would suffice to tell a company that one didn't get the GCs they ordered, and they get a full refund/replacement, dishonest people will do that to get "free money" from companies.
If it would suffice to tell a company that one didn't get the GCs they ordered, and they get a full refund/replacement, dishonest people will do that to get "free money" from companies.
This is the kind of character that we see more and more as this "hobby" has become increasingly well known and mainstream.
There are some real creeps among us...
Apr 13, 2016, 4:38 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 24
Indeed. Folks here who read the other threads will note there's a poster proudly proclaiming that he will do anything (as long as he can get away with it), so take money from corporations. Anything - as long as it works. He's unapologetic about this (to put it mildly).
This is the kind of character that we see more and more as this "hobby" has become increasingly well known and mainstream.
There are some real creeps among us...
This is the kind of character that we see more and more as this "hobby" has become increasingly well known and mainstream.
There are some real creeps among us...
Yea those kind of people make it harder for the legit cases.
I suppose i should file a police report. any recommendations for efficiently doing that and providing it to AMEX ?