Old Jan 7, 2016, 8:18 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: RedSun
This is the 2016 and onwards Bluebird thread.

The original discussion. The previous 2013- 2014 megathread. The previous 2015 megathread.

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Read the wiki before posting a question.

The most recent huge wave of shutdowns occurred in May 2019.

Most accounts used for MS were shut down on Jan 8, 2016. Another wave of shutdowns occurred on March 4, 2016. Using Bluebird for MS is very likely to lead to account closure. There is no clear pattern as to how to avoid the account shut-downs. Some of the dormant accounts were not shut down.


Check your BB load limits BEFORE asking in this thread about "tender not allowed" or any other errors.

Bluebird website. There's no need to buy a Bluebird kit in-store; sign-up free on the website.

For information on switching from BB to Serve, see the Serve thread wiki.

Bluebird Load Limits:
  • Cash loading: $2,500 ($1,999.99 at Walmart) per card per day; $9,000 per day all BB cards combined; $5,000 total per calendar month each card; $10,000 calendar month and $100,000 per year all BB cards combined for each SSN.
  • Direct Deposit: $100,000 per year
  • Online Debit Card Load* - $200/day and $1,000/month
  • Checking/Savings Account - $2,000/month
  • Mobile Check Capture by Ingo Money - $5,000/day and $10,000/month
  • ATM Withdrawals - $750/day and $2,000/month

The cash load limit for a temp card is $1,500 total.

*For online debit load, only use of bank-issued cards is allowed. The use of pre-paid debit cards (Netspend, Paypower, Univision, Paypal, etc.) and VGC/MGC/AGCs is not allowed. Your account will be flagged upon first/second attempt. If blocked, call Account Protection Services at 1-800-660-2454 to clear it (9am-8pm EST, Mon-Fri).

The day currently resets around midnight Eastern/11pm Central/10pm Mountain/9pm Pacific.

For online bill pay
  • You can pay the credit card that you used to buy reloads
  • Error 1302 means that you have 1 pending payment the same amount as the one you just submitted. For example, 1000 bill pay to sapphire preferred from Friday and then on Saturday you submit another bill pay for 1000 to sapphire preferred, you will get this error.
  • Tip: if using online bill pay to the same place multiple times, vary your amounts by $0.01 to make it easier to track since your confirmation number does not match the tracking number on your credit card statement


Loading with debit card at Walmart
Self checkout does not work for loading.

Many Walmart stores are enforcing a rule against the use of gift cards when loading, even though the register and the MCE do not enforce. Do not make your prepaid debit cards visible. Show them a bank debit card if asked. Otherwise, you may be asked by management to never visit the MC again to load with gift cards.

Loads at register over $500 will sometimes trigger ID requirement. There is a limit of four swipes per transaction; this means your card plus three payments.

If your card doesn't say "debit" on the front, it isn't a debit card.

Please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...bit-cards.html for additional information on using prepaid debit cards.

Training a WM cashier:
  • If the WM cashier doesn't know how to load the card, advise them to enter "70" then press "action code".
  • If you are using a temp card that doesn't have your name on it, you can swipe the card from your side of the terminal. The WM rep never has to touch any of your cards. The screen will say "enter account." That is your prompt to slide the card.
  • The terminal will ask the WM employee if you are loading in multiples of $2000. Advise them to enter "no."
  • Avoid saying gift card. Always refer to your card as a debit card.

Error Messages:
DEBIT NOT AVAILABLE
Received when I used a card I thought I had activated but hadn't.

DEBIT NOT APPROVED
Received when the card's monthly load limit had been reached.

TENDER NOT ALLOWED
Card was incorrectly read, or wrong PIN entered .

HOST TIMEOUT
Connection problems. The GC may be drained but the transaction should reverse itself, and funds will become available again. Try again later.

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Bluebird master thread (2016 onwards)

Old Jan 8, 2016, 6:42 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by RobertHanson
I'm well aware that depositing huge sums of MOs on a monthly basis to a single checking account can cause undue attention. Although I've seen multiple posts of people doing that successfully by splitting the deposits among multiple banks. But I'm not aware of reports of people having problems paying their ccs bills at bank branches with MOs. Can you point me to some data points on that?
Depositing a continual stream of money orders is not much different than loading a continual stream of VGCs to the BB and Serve cards that were just shut down en masse. With the MS crowd likely to start hitting money orders even harder, anyone who goes this route — and does it with the biggest banks in the country — is inviting scrutiny. As with the VGCs, there just aren't a whole lot of good explanations for depositing MS-level amounts of money orders month after month after month.

I'm neither an MSer nor a churner and have nothing invested in this. But I guarantee the big banks look at deposits a lot closer than Amex looked at its little experiment aimed at the so-called "unbanked."

Bluebird was a great little product, but it's another great example of no good deed going unpunished.
jsk1973 is offline  
Old Jan 8, 2016, 7:13 pm
  #47  
 
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Depositing MOs in ANY bank / CU is asking for trouble. Banks do not like MOs because of the possibility of fraud. Many of us have had accounts shut down because of MO deposits.

Beware of the issues before you wade into this swamp.

Originally Posted by jsk1973
Depositing a continual stream of money orders is not much different than loading a continual stream of VGCs to the BB and Serve cards that were just shut down en masse. With the MS crowd likely to start hitting money orders even harder, anyone who goes this route and does it with the biggest banks in the country is inviting scrutiny. As with the VGCs, there just aren't a whole lot of good explanations for depositing MS-level amounts of money orders month after month after month.

I'm neither an MSer nor a churner and have nothing invested in this. But I guarantee the big banks look at deposits a lot closer than Amex looked at its little experiment aimed at the so-called "unbanked."

Bluebird was a great little product, but it's another great example of no good deed going unpunished.
deant is offline  
Old Jan 8, 2016, 7:46 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by deant
Depositing MOs in ANY bank / CU is asking for trouble. Banks do not like MOs because of the possibility of fraud. Many of us have had accounts shut down because of MO deposits.

Beware of the issues before you wade into this swamp.
Yeah! No legitimate businesses anywhere use MO for any purpose, WM only prints them for criminals!
CWAL is offline  
Old Jan 8, 2016, 8:11 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Not that big a problem for me with BofA, Chase, Citi, and US. I can just buy MOs with my GCs, and pay off my cc bills with those at the branches.

But AMEX and Barclays are a different matter. I don't want to just mail them the MOs, and I'd rather not cycle tens of thousands of $ thru my checking accounts each month. Any ideas how to pay AMEX and Barclays?
May I ask why you don't want to cycle 10,000s thru your checking account but you were willing to do that through your Bluebird account?

What makes a checking account so virginal that you don't want to MS with it, even though you were willing to MS with your Bluebird account? They are the same thing... they are simple bank accounts. Both are tied to your SSN.

Just curious why you'd see them differently.
styxfire is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 12:12 am
  #50  
 
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MO in small quantities can work, but more than $2 or $3k regularly is going to cause big issues. MO for minimum spend should be OK. Not $5k a month like BB.
calwatch is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 12:55 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by CWAL
Yeah! No legitimate businesses anywhere use MO for any purpose, WM only prints them for criminals!
Well now that the ultimate authority has spoken, MOs are done for!

Originally Posted by RobertHanson
But AMEX and Barclays are a different matter. I don't want to just mail them the MOs...
How come? Risk they won't get there? Credit to the wrong account? I'm curious b/c I'm in a similar issue as in the middle of the 30k bonus miles promo with my Aviator card and there is no way I can meet it without MS. I'm almost willing to suck up the cost of a stamp and mail the stupid thing in. I hate not doing things with free technology....
krazykanuck is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 2:13 am
  #52  
 
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I was in the middle of the 30k challenge too and was planning on meeting it through NW Buxx and unloading it via BB. With NW Buxx not worth it as an option I may just pass on this, close the account when the annual fee comes up, and open another AA card via Citi if I need more miles and MS via tax payments or other methods.
calwatch is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 4:08 am
  #53  
 
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Your Bluebird escaped the purge - what next?

I know I'm in the heavy minority here, but 2/3 of my accounts avoided the axe and are definitely still kicking. No rhyme or reason why after reading the shutdown thread, just luck I suppose. Both accounts had frequent WM loads

Anyhow, I know some of you are in the same boat and was curious what you were doing nest. I figure a shutdown is coming, and probably sooner then later and my options are:

1) keep going full steam ahead, figuring shutdown is inevitable so load what can be loaded
2) lay low for a while and hope it blows over the account
3) empty the account and close it on my terms. Since it's probably marked, if I cancel it, I can probably apply for a clean and new account next month - ideally with no marks on my record

I can sort of leaning towards #3, though there are risks there too (that I am tossing a working card and could get denied in the future)

For other survivors - what are you doing?
freeloader is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 4:24 am
  #54  
 
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Maybe if we keep creating new threads about substantially the same issue, Amex will reverse their policy?
airstairfear is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 6:56 am
  #55  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 580
Originally Posted by freeloader
I know I'm in the heavy minority here, but 2/3 of my accounts avoided the axe and are definitely still kicking. No rhyme or reason why after reading the shutdown thread, just luck I suppose. Both accounts had frequent WM loads

Anyhow, I know some of you are in the same boat and was curious what you were doing nest. I figure a shutdown is coming, and probably sooner then later and my options are:

1) keep going full steam ahead, figuring shutdown is inevitable so load what can be loaded
2) lay low for a while and hope it blows over the account
3) empty the account and close it on my terms. Since it's probably marked, if I cancel it, I can probably apply for a clean and new account next month - ideally with no marks on my record

I can sort of leaning towards #3, though there are risks there too (that I am tossing a working card and could get denied in the future)

For other survivors - what are you doing?
2/4 of my accounts survived (one is so new I don't even have the card yet).
The other one was recently converted from bluebird to serve. Timing just worked out well. I'd suggest waiting for more data from others. I expect much like with old amex they will nab everybody eventually, so choices are either stay so low under radar that you neuter the card, or go out in flames.

My temporary plan is to load at the very end of January and very beginning of February, but hopefully by then we'll know if shutdowns are immediately reactionary, or there is lag time.
zeppoloveskafka is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:22 am
  #56  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I have one BB that survived the massacre yesterday, I'm going to make a small load today and see if it goes through before I do two $1Ks. not knowing what the giant is up to, I've decided to max out whatever is still working rather than be paralyzed by fear and do nothing. if it's up for slaughter anytime, they will turn off loading feature. if it's still on, I'll just put the max load and come what may.
Mamibear is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:29 am
  #57  
 
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I never even converted my Redbird to Bluebird so I guess now is the time. I don't care for Walmart and don't want to make multiple trips but maybe I'll read the wiki and give it a try.
Travel4Points is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:31 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Originally Posted by krazykanuck
How come? Risk they won't get there? Credit to the wrong account? I'm curious b/c I'm in a similar issue as in the middle of the 30k bonus miles promo with my Aviator card and there is no way I can meet it without MS. I'm almost willing to suck up the cost of a stamp and mail the stupid thing in. I hate not doing things with free technology....
you don't have to pay for stamp if you call them to send you several postage paid payment envelopes. Personally, I don't mail in MOs.
Mamibear is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:53 am
  #59  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by styxfire
May I ask why you don't want to cycle 10,000s thru your checking account but you were willing to do that through your Bluebird account?

What makes a checking account so virginal that you don't want to MS with it, even though you were willing to MS with your Bluebird account? They are the same thing... they are simple bank accounts. Both are tied to your SSN.

Just curious why you'd see them differently.
Very simple: people had been using BB that way for a number of years, and until yesterday there were no reported problems with it. There have been reports over time of banks becoming upset when people cycled thousands of $ of MOs thru their checking accounts, as it can easily appear to be money laundering. Plus the worst thing likely to happen with BB was a shut down of BB, whereas the worst case scenario with a major bank is being blacklisted from doing business with them.
RobertHanson is offline  
Old Jan 9, 2016, 9:01 am
  #60  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Very simple: people had been using BB that way for a number of years, and until yesterday there were no reported problems with it. There have been reports over time of banks becoming upset when people cycled thousands of $ of MOs thru their checking accounts, as it can easily appear to be money laundering. Plus the worst thing likely to happen with BB was a shut down of BB, whereas the worst case scenario with a major bank is being blacklisted from doing business with them.
From an email sent out by the blogger Frequent Miler today:

"Warning: banks have been known to shut down customers who regularly deposit money orders in large quantities."

Notice it specifically mentions "deposit", and "large quantities", not paying $1K directly to your cc bill at a bank branch. Possibly there have been reports of problems with the later, but I haven't seen any.
RobertHanson is offline  

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