who/why do you do MS?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 12
who/why do you do MS?
I have been reading this and other forums on MS and I understand the concept..the question I have is, when do you decide it's not worth your time or effort? I just don't see major $$$ in this, or maybe I am missing things completely.
For example, I see posts of people opening new credit cards and needing to spend 3k, 5k, 10k over a 3 month period to get all the "points" on the signup...and need to do the MS thing to make it to those limits....I am in the fortunate position that my wife and I make $250k+ a year and between my business I run and our regular charges for daily expense, we run anywhere from 10k-20k a month through our CC's..(without MS) ..getting the cash back through the cards.....so does it even make sense to play with MS? I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
For example, I see posts of people opening new credit cards and needing to spend 3k, 5k, 10k over a 3 month period to get all the "points" on the signup...and need to do the MS thing to make it to those limits....I am in the fortunate position that my wife and I make $250k+ a year and between my business I run and our regular charges for daily expense, we run anywhere from 10k-20k a month through our CC's..(without MS) ..getting the cash back through the cards.....so does it even make sense to play with MS? I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
#2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Hilton Diamond, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 102
1. Some of us don't make that kind of money
2. If you have the money to go on trips with no $$$ problem, you don't need to MS
3. People MS for points & miles to make traveling possible cheaply or even at no cost if planned correctly.
4. I'm not even sure what you're doing here lol Sounds like you're more curious than anything else.
2. If you have the money to go on trips with no $$$ problem, you don't need to MS
3. People MS for points & miles to make traveling possible cheaply or even at no cost if planned correctly.
4. I'm not even sure what you're doing here lol Sounds like you're more curious than anything else.
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 12
1. Some of us don't make that kind of money
2. If you have the money to go on trips with no $$$ problem, you don't need to MS
3. People MS for points & miles to make traveling possible cheaply or even at no cost if planned correctly.
4. I'm not even sure what you're doing here lol Sounds like you're more curious than anything else.
2. If you have the money to go on trips with no $$$ problem, you don't need to MS
3. People MS for points & miles to make traveling possible cheaply or even at no cost if planned correctly.
4. I'm not even sure what you're doing here lol Sounds like you're more curious than anything else.
#4
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
Some of us also make far more than you make, but we do have a need to travel, and we see value in it.
Many have wife's and relation in other countries, sure is nice to travel FC international, see the kids graduate, outside their home countries, even have babies in the US.
If you see no value don't waste your time....just my thoughts, nothing personal, just a business decision...I give most of my miles away.
Many have wife's and relation in other countries, sure is nice to travel FC international, see the kids graduate, outside their home countries, even have babies in the US.
If you see no value don't waste your time....just my thoughts, nothing personal, just a business decision...I give most of my miles away.
#5
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,498
I have been reading this and other forums on MS and I understand the concept..the question I have is, when do you decide it's not worth your time or effort? I just don't see major $$$ in this, or maybe I am missing things completely.
For example, I see posts of people opening new credit cards and needing to spend 3k, 5k, 10k over a 3 month period to get all the "points" on the signup...and need to do the MS thing to make it to those limits....I am in the fortunate position that my wife and I make $250k+ a year and between my business I run and our regular charges for daily expense, we run anywhere from 10k-20k a month through our CC's..(without MS) ..getting the cash back through the cards.....so does it even make sense to play with MS? I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
For example, I see posts of people opening new credit cards and needing to spend 3k, 5k, 10k over a 3 month period to get all the "points" on the signup...and need to do the MS thing to make it to those limits....I am in the fortunate position that my wife and I make $250k+ a year and between my business I run and our regular charges for daily expense, we run anywhere from 10k-20k a month through our CC's..(without MS) ..getting the cash back through the cards.....so does it even make sense to play with MS? I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
#7
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
When the last mile, point or cash back has been squeezed from the last institution taxpayers were forced to bailout.
#9
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 427
For the free/discounted lodging for family travel, reduce expenses, and the slight increase in disposable cash. While I do make a very nice income, I have a litter of kids and a wife with a fear of flying, so the ROI on the amount of MS some of you do based on FF miles just isn't there for me, other than the occasional business trip where I might want an upgrade. I'm kinda glad in a way. While there is definitely a tangible benefit to MS, I value my time very highly, and the point of diminishing returns is probably lower for me than for most of you. While I don't MS as hard as many here, I can say that I rarely pay for gas any more, and have made it more than worth my while in travel credits and cash back.
#11
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS .. but soon SFO
Programs: UA PLAT, TK GLD, Hilton Diamond, IC PLAT, SPG GLD, Marriott GLD
Posts: 1,528
there are 2 'parts' to this discussion
1) Do I want CB or points
Doing MS for CB will have a poor ROI when compared to miles/points, especially when you add in new credit card applications. It seems like you & your wife are pretty vanilla, you have a plethora of CC bonuses to exploit.
CB will yield, what, 4% average at most in a year? You do 15k a month average, that's $7,200 CB at the end of the year off 180k run through CCs
2 years ago, I started running $30k a month through CCs with the vanilla reload cards (long since dead) and amazon payments (also dead). That would have most likely netted me somewhere around $10k cash after MS expenses.
However, I used that MS to pump and dump various credit cards and it got my wife & I:
1) a trip to cancun in business + weekend stay at Westin for taxes only
2) a 4 day trip to Conrad in Maldives at an OWB in TK Business + activities and dinners at the resort for $4k total
2) 4 days in Bora Bora + 4 days in Moorea @ Hilton properties, upgraded to OWB for free, plus flights USA - PPT - USA, plus internal island flights at PPT, plus a bunch of activities, for under $2k
Just the Maldives trip should have cost somewhere around $20k from my most frugal calculations, so that alone was worth more than the CB
I MS for points/miles which I have learned to exploit like crazy
-----------------------------
2) Do I want to churn CCs?
If you DO NOT churn CCs, then this game is pretty much worthless for you.
Last year with the CITI AA EXEC MC my family pooled around 1.6 million AA miles, which includes the 2x1 CITI AA PLAT cards that we were gettign every 8 days.
That's a lot of miles!!
Aside from that, a lot of people focus on 401k/ROTH IRAs for retirement. Few people look at LIFETIME status with HOTELS/AIRLINES as part of the retirement package.
SPG, for instance, will give you lifetime gold for 5 years of gold + 250 nights. Reward nights count towards this. The AMEX SPG pers+Biz will give you 5 nights each a year, so 10 nights total. If you pump $30k through either of the cards, you get gold for that year. Do this 5 years in a row and you've gotten 50 nights + satisfied one of the criteria for lifetime status
If you and your wife do this, then each has lifetime status, which means better rooms, free wifi, and sometimes club access that has free food & drinks. This might not be a 'spectacular' benefit, but when you travel with family, it brings down the costs dramatically.
1) Do I want CB or points
Doing MS for CB will have a poor ROI when compared to miles/points, especially when you add in new credit card applications. It seems like you & your wife are pretty vanilla, you have a plethora of CC bonuses to exploit.
CB will yield, what, 4% average at most in a year? You do 15k a month average, that's $7,200 CB at the end of the year off 180k run through CCs
2 years ago, I started running $30k a month through CCs with the vanilla reload cards (long since dead) and amazon payments (also dead). That would have most likely netted me somewhere around $10k cash after MS expenses.
However, I used that MS to pump and dump various credit cards and it got my wife & I:
1) a trip to cancun in business + weekend stay at Westin for taxes only
2) a 4 day trip to Conrad in Maldives at an OWB in TK Business + activities and dinners at the resort for $4k total
2) 4 days in Bora Bora + 4 days in Moorea @ Hilton properties, upgraded to OWB for free, plus flights USA - PPT - USA, plus internal island flights at PPT, plus a bunch of activities, for under $2k
Just the Maldives trip should have cost somewhere around $20k from my most frugal calculations, so that alone was worth more than the CB
I MS for points/miles which I have learned to exploit like crazy
-----------------------------
2) Do I want to churn CCs?
If you DO NOT churn CCs, then this game is pretty much worthless for you.
Last year with the CITI AA EXEC MC my family pooled around 1.6 million AA miles, which includes the 2x1 CITI AA PLAT cards that we were gettign every 8 days.
That's a lot of miles!!
Aside from that, a lot of people focus on 401k/ROTH IRAs for retirement. Few people look at LIFETIME status with HOTELS/AIRLINES as part of the retirement package.
SPG, for instance, will give you lifetime gold for 5 years of gold + 250 nights. Reward nights count towards this. The AMEX SPG pers+Biz will give you 5 nights each a year, so 10 nights total. If you pump $30k through either of the cards, you get gold for that year. Do this 5 years in a row and you've gotten 50 nights + satisfied one of the criteria for lifetime status
If you and your wife do this, then each has lifetime status, which means better rooms, free wifi, and sometimes club access that has free food & drinks. This might not be a 'spectacular' benefit, but when you travel with family, it brings down the costs dramatically.
#12
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 158
#13
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angles
Posts: 2,101
Some of us also make far more than you make, but we do have a need to travel, and we see value in it.
Many have wife's and relation in other countries, sure is nice to travel FC international, see the kids graduate, outside their home countries, even have babies in the US.
If you see no value don't waste your time....just my thoughts, nothing personal, just a business decision...I give most of my miles away.
Many have wife's and relation in other countries, sure is nice to travel FC international, see the kids graduate, outside their home countries, even have babies in the US.
If you see no value don't waste your time....just my thoughts, nothing personal, just a business decision...I give most of my miles away.
I have been doing MSing before the mint days. 20k/30k per month is almost effortless, more is outside my comfort level, use only 5% category CC or introductory offers.
#14
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: IND
Programs: Hilton Dia, Hyatt Glbl, Marriott Lftm Plat, National EE
Posts: 316
I have been reading this and other forums on MS and I understand the concept..the question I have is, when do you decide it's not worth your time or effort? I just don't see major $$$ in this, or maybe I am missing things completely.
I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
I just don't see any value here for me? Or maybe I am missing things completely....
MS isn't for everyone. Personally, I MS because I simply just like the idea of it. Frankly, all the effort I put into MS would probably pay off significantly better if I invested that effort into more aggressively pursuing my day job. BUT, for me MS is a way to decompress and forget about my day job. In short, I get a kick out of analyzing the system, looking for the loophole, and optimizing inefficiencies in a way that leads to a tangible benefit to my family. In other words, it is a "hobby" that produces family resources (instead of draining them).
I live in a very low cost state and would be considered "well off" by most who also live in my state. That being said, I'm not rolling in the dough either! I consider the money / points that I generate using MS as our "Guilt Free Travel Fund". I take my family of four on two 2-week vacations each year with effectively all of our expenses covered by MS. As in the only out-of-pocket expenses are the cash that we bring along to A) buy stuff from the locals, and B) tip the staff.
For us, we would travel significantly less without MS. There are just too many other things that *need* the money from my regular paychecks (mortgages, retirement, college funds, etc) such that travel would have to take a back seat. With MS, we can travel (often in style) with no guilt.
Just my $.02!
#15
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 84
Frankly, all the effort I put into MS would probably pay off significantly better if I invested that effort into more aggressively pursuing my day job. BUT, for me MS is a way to decompress and forget about my day job. In short, I get a kick out of analyzing the system, looking for the loophole, and optimizing inefficiencies in a way that leads to a tangible benefit to my family. In other words, it is a "hobby" that produces family resources (instead of draining them).
MSing is not a home run, it's hitting singles