Money Order Returned - "Refer to Maker"

Old Oct 31, 2014, 8:09 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322
ATM at my bank can't fully read WU or MG MOs, I have to key-in amount for each one. So I go old-school, deposit with teller, who has to do the same thing.
tuphat is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 4:34 pm
  #17  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
Originally Posted by tuphat
ATM at my bank can't fully read WU or MG MOs, I have to key-in amount for each one. So I go old-school, deposit with teller, who has to do the same thing.
Same here. ATMs often failed to read the MOs because the WMTs here only changed the ink till it is almost unreadable...
I saw my tellers wrote the amount on the MG MOs so I started doing so. Seems to help eliminate the reconciliation issues. Been doing MO deposits long before PIN enabled prepaid cards came to existence, always at the counters. Have friendly relationships with tellers in several branches so much so they missed me when we went on long trips. My tellers all know what I am doing that for, it is not a secret or some exotic thing to them or their superiors.

Last edited by Happy; Oct 31, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Happy is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 5:25 pm
  #18  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,207
Im not sure why the atm not fully reading the amount makes people deposit at counters.... just key in amount? Never had an issue with a deposit doing that.
hamokmonky is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 7:03 pm
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
Originally Posted by hamokmonky
Im not sure why the atm not fully reading the amount makes people deposit at counters.... just key in amount? Never had an issue with a deposit doing that.
A lot quicker to have teller processing a batch than keying in amount on each and every one of them. I also like to maintain a relationship with my branches for the volume I used to do when there was still the lovely AS debit card... long before MS on prepaid became viable as I said.
Happy is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 7:57 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 392
Ok, people need to calm down a little. There are plenty of people that may deserve the blame besides the tellers.

Let me explain how a check (or money order) is processed: Your bank tallies up all the checks it has at the end of each day, and sends boxes of checks to the federal reserve (or other large bank that processes checks) who then sorts them and sends them by plane overnight all over the nation to the closest other federal reserve branch, who sorts them down to local banks, and then has the local banks come pick up those checks, who then sort them and debit them from their account holders.

(Remember - a money order is just a check.)

So, at ANY POINT in this any check can get lost, damaged, or "dropped twice." "Dropped twice" means that at some point somewhere a check gets lost for some reason - a machine gets jammed, someone loses it in a drawer or on the floor or in a bag or behind a machine or a billion other places. What happens when a check goes missing? The bank that is supposed to have it will contact the bank that supposedly sent it to them, and each bank will go back to their source, until they get to YOUR bank where you deposited it. Then your bank will look in their records and produce a "photo copy" of the check and redeposit it for credit (they are supposed to "film" every check you deposit with the teller so they can produce a copy later - so if they have a photocopy, yours went past the "teller" phase). Well, say in the meantime the original check somehow made its way to through the system all the way to the issuing bank (say, someone found it and stuffed it in a box) - now, when the photocopy comes through, they see the "same check" twice. So, now the copy is returned "refer to maker."

(Or the original never makes it - gets totally lost - but the new photocopy that was requested does, but its a crappy unreadable copy, and they return that. Which is what it sounds like happened here.)

Basically, now the banks will go behind the scenes and track down where the original check came from, and the photocopy, and debit any bank that wasn't supposed to get credit for the original check. Eventually they'll all figure it out and you will get your credit. (Or get your bank to make a real copy from their film records and deposit that.)

Again, dozens of people could handle a check before it gets back to the drawn-on bank. So its not necessarily your teller. You'll probably never know who screwed up. And who do you think tallies up the ATM checks? A teller. So its not like an ATM is saving anyone here from any of these screwups.

PS. I used to work at the fed and we screwed up a lot. As do all banks. Its a total mess, you have no idea.
miadeals is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 9:33 pm
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chyona
Programs: Anywhere I can ski...
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by miadeals
Ok, people need to calm down a little. There are plenty of people that may deserve the blame besides the tellers.

Let me explain how a check (or money order) is processed: Your bank tallies up all the checks it has at the end of each day, and sends boxes of checks to the federal reserve (or other large bank that processes checks) who then sorts them and sends them by plane overnight all over the nation to the closest other federal reserve branch, who sorts them down to local banks, and then has the local banks come pick up those checks, who then sort them and debit them from their account holders.

(Remember - a money order is just a check.)

So, at ANY POINT in this any check can get lost, damaged, or "dropped twice." "Dropped twice" means that at some point somewhere a check gets lost for some reason - a machine gets jammed, someone loses it in a drawer or on the floor or in a bag or behind a machine or a billion other places. What happens when a check goes missing? The bank that is supposed to have it will contact the bank that supposedly sent it to them, and each bank will go back to their source, until they get to YOUR bank where you deposited it. Then your bank will look in their records and produce a "photo copy" of the check and redeposit it for credit (they are supposed to "film" every check you deposit with the teller so they can produce a copy later - so if they have a photocopy, yours went past the "teller" phase). Well, say in the meantime the original check somehow made its way to through the system all the way to the issuing bank (say, someone found it and stuffed it in a box) - now, when the photocopy comes through, they see the "same check" twice. So, now the copy is returned "refer to maker."

(Or the original never makes it - gets totally lost - but the new photocopy that was requested does, but its a crappy unreadable copy, and they return that. Which is what it sounds like happened here.)

Basically, now the banks will go behind the scenes and track down where the original check came from, and the photocopy, and debit any bank that wasn't supposed to get credit for the original check. Eventually they'll all figure it out and you will get your credit. (Or get your bank to make a real copy from their film records and deposit that.)

Again, dozens of people could handle a check before it gets back to the drawn-on bank. So its not necessarily your teller. You'll probably never know who screwed up. And who do you think tallies up the ATM checks? A teller. So its not like an ATM is saving anyone here from any of these screwups.

PS. I used to work at the fed and we screwed up a lot. As do all banks. Its a total mess, you have no idea.

W...t...f are you even talking about????
Do you know anything about check 21???
If I deposit a check (money order) in the tyme machine, a digital copy of the check (money order) is processed for the issuing bank to pay funds from the check (money order)...
MasterCharge is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 9:44 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chyona
Programs: Anywhere I can ski...
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by andres17
Can you explain this. Why is the ATM safer for making the deposit?

I always deposit in person, old school. I guess using an ATM saves you those stupid "Why are you the buyer and the receiver" stupid questions. Do you get a receipt with the ATM method?

I always staple the receipt and the MO stub together. I also keep electronic copies of my MO receipts. I never had any problems, but I wonder, is the MO stub and the receipt enough to cover ALL possible problems that might arise?
Mostly because I can confirm immediately that all the money orders were scan correctly rather than a person scanning it when I let a teller do the deposit.
MasterCharge is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 11:24 pm
  #23  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
Originally Posted by miadeals
Ok, people need to calm down a little. There are plenty of people that may deserve the blame besides the tellers.

Let me explain how a check (or money order) is processed: Your bank tallies up all the checks it has at the end of each day, and sends boxes of checks to the federal reserve (or other large bank that processes checks) who then sorts them and sends them by plane overnight all over the nation to the closest other federal reserve branch, who sorts them down to local banks, and then has the local banks come pick up those checks, who then sort them and debit them from their account holders.

(Remember - a money order is just a check.)

So, at ANY POINT in this any check can get lost, damaged, or "dropped twice." "Dropped twice" means that at some point somewhere a check gets lost for some reason - a machine gets jammed, someone loses it in a drawer or on the floor or in a bag or behind a machine or a billion other places. What happens when a check goes missing? The bank that is supposed to have it will contact the bank that supposedly sent it to them, and each bank will go back to their source, until they get to YOUR bank where you deposited it. Then your bank will look in their records and produce a "photo copy" of the check and redeposit it for credit (they are supposed to "film" every check you deposit with the teller so they can produce a copy later - so if they have a photocopy, yours went past the "teller" phase). Well, say in the meantime the original check somehow made its way to through the system all the way to the issuing bank (say, someone found it and stuffed it in a box) - now, when the photocopy comes through, they see the "same check" twice. So, now the copy is returned "refer to maker."

(Or the original never makes it - gets totally lost - but the new photocopy that was requested does, but its a crappy unreadable copy, and they return that. Which is what it sounds like happened here.)

Basically, now the banks will go behind the scenes and track down where the original check came from, and the photocopy, and debit any bank that wasn't supposed to get credit for the original check. Eventually they'll all figure it out and you will get your credit. (Or get your bank to make a real copy from their film records and deposit that.)

Again, dozens of people could handle a check before it gets back to the drawn-on bank. So its not necessarily your teller. You'll probably never know who screwed up. And who do you think tallies up the ATM checks? A teller. So its not like an ATM is saving anyone here from any of these screwups.

PS. I used to work at the fed and we screwed up a lot. As do all banks. Its a total mess, you have no idea.
Sorry pal, your info is woefully OUTDATED.

Film record? how many years ago this thing is used?

Apparently you have no idea of Check 21 ACT. Please google it and learn something as what you described, is HISTORY, exactly 10 years ago.

Last edited by Happy; Oct 31, 2014 at 11:44 pm
Happy is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 11:27 pm
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,731
Originally Posted by MasterCharge
Mostly because I can confirm immediately that all the money orders were scan correctly rather than a person scanning it when I let a teller do the deposit.
The scanned image is not immediately processed just so you know. The deposits in the ATM still need to be collected/tallied/reconciled then processed.
Happy is offline  
Old Oct 31, 2014, 11:27 pm
  #25  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
Originally Posted by MasterCharge
Mostly because I can confirm immediately that all the money orders were scan correctly rather than a person scanning it when I let a teller do the deposit.
At my CU the MOs and deposit slip are scanned by this neat little machine on the counter and images of the MOs are on the bottom of the receipt they give me. I also fill the MOs out to my CU rather than myself. Occasionally I get a teller that doesn't know me and this eliminates some questions.
PaulMSN is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2014, 3:50 am
  #26  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 392
Ok, I stand corrected on the middle part (didn't realize how much the volume has changed since I left), but not the beginning part. The checks still have to be imaged at the beginning, and although different banks I'm sure do this at different points, I haven't seen any teller at my bank doing this. Seems easy enough for someone else to screw up who is imaging all the checks for electronic presentment. Which seems to be what happened here after rereading some earlier posts (one was imaged/presented twice, the other was missed altogether). I wonder if they have an image of it at all...?
miadeals is offline  
Old Nov 1, 2014, 10:14 am
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 92
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by PaulMSN
At my CU the MOs and deposit slip are scanned by this neat little machine on the counter and images of the MOs are on the bottom of the receipt they give me. I also fill the MOs out to my CU rather than myself. Occasionally I get a teller that doesn't know me and this eliminates some questions.
I either make payable to the bank for my HELOC, or my CC.

I did have one teller I have never met before try to tell me I had to deposit them in one of my checking accounts first... and the manager at the branch I usually use called while I was being told this nonsense called me while I was standing there. He had me put the phone on speaker and told her to do what I asked, deposit those as payment on my HELOC.

I've had the same bank for over 20 years, and I have always had a side business aside from working full time. MO, checks, paypal transfers for Ebay resale, MO, cash, checks for T-shirt business, and lastly, ridiculous amounts of small bills from concession trailer at fairs... so me depositing odd things is MY usual normal!
PenneyPincher is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.