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-   -   Does anyone Manufacture with zero loss or even profit? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1515516-does-anyone-manufacture-zero-loss-even-profit.html)

SR99 Oct 25, 13 12:53 am


Originally Posted by cashback (Post 21665238)
There isn't really a right answer to these arguments. Yes, there are ways to MS without paying any fees at all. You can argue what the "true value" of points are until you are blue in the face. The answer to that is different for every person.

IMO, doing half your MS with points and half with a 2% card to offset the fees is very flawed as well. If you value the points you earn greater than the 2%, you should just churn the points card. If you feel the points are worth less than what you get with a 2% card, you should just churn the 2% card.

I love your argument. It's very logical. However, many people have difficulty on valuing their points. So they play safe. At least they know their points are free and it gives them peace of mind.

I just love my points. $200 doesn't make me exciting at all. But 20000 points make me feel good. I know I'm silly. I just love the points game. Counting my points is better than counting my $ because it's much larger and make me feel I'm rich with points. It's so difficult to get one million dollars and it's much easier to get one million points

cashback Oct 25, 13 1:18 am


Originally Posted by SR99 (Post 21665593)
I love your argument. It's very logical. However, many people have difficulty on valuing their points. So they play safe. At least they know their points are free and it gives them peace of mind.

I just love my points. $200 doesn't make me exciting at all. But 20000 points make me feel good. I know I'm silly. I just love the points game. Counting my points is better than counting my $ because it's much larger and make me feel I'm rich with points. It's so difficult to get one million dollars and it's much easier to get one million points

I should have been more specific. You have to assign a value to your points based on what you redeem them for. You can't just say "I feel richer because 200,000 is bigger number than $200" :p

If you regularly fly airline X and can get a coach ticket for 25K that normally costs you $350, then your points are worth $.014 each. Obviously this will be different for everyone.

amolkold Oct 25, 13 1:18 am

Yes. Revenue > Costs for me. Or, I can "pay myself back" with points/cb liquidation and still have leftover points from the spend.

Mbcijim10 Oct 25, 13 1:42 am

I redeemed 497,000 points this year. Average redemption value was 2.1 cents.

I am at a balance of 1.5m points. So before I MS, I ask myself do I need the points? Say I can manufacture UR at a penny each but I have 400k UR points, it's probably not worth it. But if I can MS for .2 then maybe I should.

pier11 Oct 25, 13 5:37 am


Originally Posted by cashback (Post 21665238)
There isn't really a right answer to these arguments. Yes, there are ways to MS without paying any fees at all. You can argue what the "true value" of points are until you are blue in the face. The answer to that is different for every person.

IMO, doing half your MS with points and half with a 2% card to offset the fees is very flawed as well. If you value the points you earn greater than the 2%, you should just churn the points card. If you feel the points are worth less than what you get with a 2% card, you should just churn the 2% card.

Even if points are valued slightly less or equal to CB rate, it's still easier to have points balance aside. (Feels even better if that points are free or offset.)
Cashback just mixes so much with other normal cash flow. It'd take special efford to do accounting and separate that cash earned from CB cards towards future fravel.

When cashback drops into the rest of money earned traditional way, it becames "no better" than the other money I could spend on travel.

AlohaDaveKennedy Oct 25, 13 5:51 am

Kenny - Over in Judge Roy Bean's home town don't forget we had The Texas 10K, the Bank of the Banker and the Zombie Buffalo. PM me on Hello Sailor as I was always too busy with other opportunities to ever get around to them. Maybe ADK, Jr. can pay them a visit.:p


Originally Posted by KennyBSAT (Post 21664386)
Yes. Get AMEX BCP around the middle of the year, max out 6% of $6000 with grocery MS during 2 calendar years, do more MS with it at 3% at gas stations, add $250 bonus, subtaract $75 AF. Easy thousand dollars. Open Citi gold checking account, easy $400. Navy Federal CU card if you qualify, easy $600. And on and on.

I have no idea why anyone thinks they have to choose between miles and points or cashback. I prefer 'and'.

Much more helpful info on cashback programs at fatwallet and similar sites.


Rick471 Oct 25, 13 6:08 am


Originally Posted by farwest101 (Post 21665304)
Disagree. Points can/should be worth significantly more than the cash value of the points. Of course, if you aren't interested in travel, put the $ in your pocket.

For me, this game has been a revelation. My travel has increased dramatically, while my costs have dropped precipitously - a win-win. But I can't imagine going thru all the rigmarole if I were just getting a few thousand cash a year in CB. My time is better spent elsewhere if all I'm getting is cash value.

But a few card signups plus some MS, and ability to get tickets worth $10-$20K each? That's a no brainer.


I agree with this 100%. If you're not interested in travel, pocket the cb. If you're not interested in travel, why you on FT?! :D

When not meeting a minimum spend or taking a break from apps, I MS.

eltex Oct 25, 13 6:17 am

If you do the Wells 5% card, you can easily bank $1-2K in the six month intro. Repeat this every so often with other similar cards, and you have your profit, or at least you cover your VR fees.

TKKY Oct 25, 13 6:33 am

[Deleted]

TKKY Oct 25, 13 6:46 am


Originally Posted by SpeedingLunatic (Post 21664934)
Or maybe even less. I rarely stay in hotels or fly. I can't pay my taxes or heat my house with miles.

You completely missed my point though. I understand that points have different values to different people. What I was saying is don't pretend that those miles cost you nothing because you earned CB to 'offset' the fees. You could have just as easily earned the CB and foregone the points. In fact, an argument could be made that there is an additional opportunity cost to MS for points that costs you even more money.

IE. Loading BB with 5k of VRs earning points is 5k of VRs you didn't earn CB on. Your opportunity cost (assuming 2% CB) is $100.79.

Isn't your point the whole theme of this post?

SpeedingLunatic Oct 25, 13 7:34 am


Originally Posted by Ted King (Post 21666498)
Isn't your point the whole theme of this post?

Yes, but people keep wandering off into the valuations of their points...

jonnyd13 Oct 25, 13 9:27 am

I used some points for my trip to Puerto Rico recently.

cdancer20 Oct 25, 13 9:55 am


Originally Posted by xoxx (Post 21663854)
And I have had two people politely PM me and explain what they do to mitigate their costs. I don't think i'm infuriating anyone with this thread.

Would these kind people PM me as well? I am still new to MS and any tips from you smarter people helps. :) Thanks.

f0xx Oct 25, 13 11:21 am


Originally Posted by cdancer20 (Post 21667508)
Would these kind people PM me as well? I am still new to MS and any tips from you smarter people helps. :) Thanks.

x2, after threads and threads of reading. Tons of valuable information.

xoxx Oct 25, 13 11:56 am


Originally Posted by f0xx (Post 21667976)
x2, after threads and threads of reading. Tons of valuable information.

every PM I got is basically already described in this thread..
Wellsfargo 5x cash back at drug store for 6 months. Buying 2 VR makes up for the cost of 10 on another card. Break even should be easy for 6 months with that.


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