Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Nov 13, 2014, 6:19 pm
#1217
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
This is the added complication of points cards you need not only to account for your percent back but more importantly the ins and outs of the travel program and what you travel plans are. I suggest you head over to some of the other credit card forums here and do some reading as you might find some good surprises. As far as I am concerned there is not a single clear winner for travel cards, it all depends on your plans, what points you value the most, level of spend, etc.
Nov 13, 2014, 7:22 pm
#1218
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: PDX/HIO
Programs: AS MVPG; Hertz Pres; Tanquery Million Minier
Posts: 375
The old United Select card which had a bonus for gas/groceries/etc was discontinued. The United cards you can get today will only give you a bonus for spend on United.
Nov 13, 2014, 8:19 pm
#1220
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 29
Depends on what I'm looking to build up at the time. I don't think most people use just one card. If you do, you run the risk of getting it flagged and shutdown. For the most part I switch off between my CC , CSP , and the new Everyday Preferred. I also just booked a couple flights using avios for the summer so I used my BA card for a couple months.
Nov 13, 2014, 8:25 pm
#1221
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
I use a bunch of CCs, because I like to build up my accounts in as many programs as I can for flexibility. I try to get as close to zero cost as I can with CB cards and portals (just the GC and MO costs -- my time, gas, etc. are chalked up to this being a hobby). Today I boosted my Hyatt, Virgin Atlantic, Hilton, IHG and Carlson totals -- a few days ago it was Carlson, AA and Fairmont.
Nov 13, 2014, 8:40 pm
#1222
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ABE
Programs: DL, US, AA
Posts: 63
Depends on what I'm looking to build up at the time. I don't think most people use just one card. If you do, you run the risk of getting it flagged and shutdown. For the most part I switch off between my CC , CSP , and the new Everyday Preferred. I also just booked a couple flights using avios for the summer so I used my BA card for a couple months.
I realize every FI has different rules, just wanting to know what guidelines others follow.
Nov 13, 2014, 8:44 pm
#1223
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Programs: Any and All
Posts: 198
Too many variables to give a definitive answer there. It depends on your history with the financial institution, income, what your CL is, spending patterns over time, and who knows what else...
Nov 14, 2014, 3:42 am
#1224
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Nov 14, 2014, 3:43 am
#1225
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Thanks for your response! I'll gladly read through the BB thread in more depth. My concern was specific to using Redbird, Serve, BB - any card of that nature - for MS. Using MS on a Chase card, DDing that money into a Chase Checking account, and using that same account to pay off that Chase card. I thought it was a trigger and wanted to confirm whether that's approach guys on the board have been following or, are they setting up a bank account at a different FI for this purpose.
Nov 14, 2014, 6:39 am
#1226
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,207
How much can you safely use a card (multiples of CL) per month? I've been using my Barc USAir card heavily lately - about 2 to 3 X CL per month. I haven't had a problem, just want to avoid getting flagged.
I realize every FI has different rules, just wanting to know what guidelines others follow.
I realize every FI has different rules, just wanting to know what guidelines others follow.
Nov 14, 2014, 7:09 am
#1227
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 391
Some people prefer to obfuscate the source from the CC issuer when making a payment, so that it doesn't clearly go CC > Serve/BB/REDcard > CC (it's obviously different if you're loading indirectly with GC). I don't recall any posts about anyone getting shutdown by an issuer for that pattern, but if there are eyes on your account for any reason, it could be helpful (depending on the intelligence level of the CC rep).
Nov 14, 2014, 7:15 am
#1228
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
This is the added complication of points cards you need not only to account for your percent back but more importantly the ins and outs of the travel program and what you travel plans are. I suggest you head over to some of the other credit card forums here and do some reading as you might find some good surprises. As far as I am concerned there is not a single clear winner for travel cards, it all depends on your plans, what points you value the most, level of spend, etc.
Nov 14, 2014, 8:20 am
#1229
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
Diversify, Diversify, Diversify
Nov 14, 2014, 9:10 am
#1230
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 38
Like others have said, I split it up. Amex Hhonors Surpass for GC at grocery stores, CSP for Buxx loads and Serve, Freedom for Buxx loads, C1 Quicksilver for Buxx loads, Fidelity Amex sprinkled in to cover MS costs.