Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Nov 8, 2013, 1:43 pm
#76
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
It depends on how much you want to do MS. With 2 BB accounts, 10K per month should be a very good start. I would do WM MO in next level and its risky unless you are depositing the MO's in multiple bank accounts. BB accounts allow bill pay to CC. It is good to share the MS among your reward CC's.
Nov 15, 2013, 12:28 pm
#77
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: HH Gold (again), US/UA/DL non-elite, ZE Presidents Circle, WN reluctant no fee convert.
Posts: 1,449
RE: Bluebird concern. My local WM not even in the loop
The money center and the cust svc are combined. Not one "sign-type" anywhere with a hint that they would know about Bluebird, I mean, no brochures, nothing. Too busy to ask.
Tons of stuff about other money services offered.
I want to try this Vanilla reload to Bluebird, but am so concerned they will turn me away with a "lady, don't know what you're talkin' 'bout" look.
They do sell the Bluebird near the cashier checkout, though.
Also, IF I have a SERVE leftover, does it need to be closed first before the Bluebird START?
Tons of stuff about other money services offered.
I want to try this Vanilla reload to Bluebird, but am so concerned they will turn me away with a "lady, don't know what you're talkin' 'bout" look.
They do sell the Bluebird near the cashier checkout, though.
Also, IF I have a SERVE leftover, does it need to be closed first before the Bluebird START?
Nov 15, 2013, 12:58 pm
#78
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: All of them!
Posts: 322
Yes. Serve and Bluebird are mutually exclusive products. You can have one or the other, but not both. If you want BB, close Serve first, then apply for BB online. That way you don't have to pay the $5 to buy one in store, and you can't reload the card until after your permanent one has come in the mail anyway so there's no benefit to paying the $5.
Nov 17, 2013, 10:07 pm
#79
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 486
Is it MOs from WM in particular that are risky, or MOs in general? I'm hitting up against the $5k BB limit and so thought I would try supermarket visa GC=> supermarket MO => my regular bank (conveniently located next door to the supermarket). I actually do have a few accounts I could deposit to, but it hadn't occurred to me there would be a risk in putting them all in the one bank. Could you explain?
Nov 18, 2013, 5:34 am
#80
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Antonio
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 2,276
Is it MOs from WM in particular that are risky, or MOs in general? I'm hitting up against the $5k BB limit and so thought I would try supermarket visa GC=> supermarket MO => my regular bank (conveniently located next door to the supermarket). I actually do have a few accounts I could deposit to, but it hadn't occurred to me there would be a risk in putting them all in the one bank. Could you explain?
Nov 18, 2013, 2:32 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 486
Starting out with money orders
Apologies if this has been covered. I have been reading a lot trying to figure it all out, but I could use some help. I think I'm ready to start dabbling in money orders. The problem I have is that Wal Mart is not easy for me to get to, so I'm looking for alternatives.
1) Local supermarket. Issues money orders with debit card, but not gift cards with PIN - I tested it this morning. Would a prepaid debit card, like Netspend, work? Is there a better card than Netspend? I read there is a high shut down risk.
2) Does success vary by chain or by location? For example, should I try MoneyGrams over Western Unions, or is it entirely idiosyncratic?
3) Is there a list anywhere of where money orders can be bought with gift cards?
1) Local supermarket. Issues money orders with debit card, but not gift cards with PIN - I tested it this morning. Would a prepaid debit card, like Netspend, work? Is there a better card than Netspend? I read there is a high shut down risk.
2) Does success vary by chain or by location? For example, should I try MoneyGrams over Western Unions, or is it entirely idiosyncratic?
3) Is there a list anywhere of where money orders can be bought with gift cards?
Nov 18, 2013, 9:48 pm
#82
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 486
Just in case questions are raised, the bank should not be one from whom you receive your rewards points/miles, or ever plan to. A thousand or two on a few days a month totaling 5 to 10 thousand a month should be no problem at all. Try it out, start small, and be prepared to open an account at a different bank if needed. I deposit my MOs from inside the supermarket deli/cafe area using my local credit union's smartphone app.
Nov 19, 2013, 6:28 pm
#83
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Importance of legit spending
I'm new to MS, but I'm looking to begin soon. Since this is the newbie thread, it seemed like the right place to ask about finances.
I'm looking to work up to MS of about $10k per month split between two different credit cards (one AMEX, one Chase), using a combination of VR and AP. Ideally, I'd like to keep my MS completely separate from my everyday expenses. Different credit cards, different bank accounts.
My question is, how important is it to mix in non-MS spending on these cards? Will $5k per month of pure MS on these cards get them shut down? Or are my is my expected level of MS low enough that I might fly under the radar without mixing in other spending?
I'm looking to work up to MS of about $10k per month split between two different credit cards (one AMEX, one Chase), using a combination of VR and AP. Ideally, I'd like to keep my MS completely separate from my everyday expenses. Different credit cards, different bank accounts.
My question is, how important is it to mix in non-MS spending on these cards? Will $5k per month of pure MS on these cards get them shut down? Or are my is my expected level of MS low enough that I might fly under the radar without mixing in other spending?
Nov 19, 2013, 7:14 pm
#84
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Antonio
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 2,276
Not important at all. Many people are more comfortable mixing in regular spend, but it doesn't matter at all. 5K is fine, you may have a few fraud alerts early on until your spending patterns are established. They go like this: Did you make this purchase at CVS for $2000? Yes. Ok, thanks for your card membership.
Nov 20, 2013, 12:03 am
#85
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 756
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
I'm hoping that experts can weigh in on my situation. I opened a UA chase biz cc under my husband's name and added myself as an AU. Upon verifying the card with chase, I told them we would have some big purchases in the next month. They noted it so I thought I was ok. Today I went to buy VRs and after 2 transactions of 503 each, the card was declined. I wasn't too worried, so I called chase that moment to authorize the charge so I could buy more VRs. They told me that my acct was under review and they wld get back to me. I ended up not buying the rest of the VRs. Called chase tonight to see what the issue was and they didn't have any info for me, just that it was under review. The only problem I could think of was that I didn't use the primary cardholder's cc first. I had read before that when charges are mostly on the AU's card, then there is an issue. However, I had only charged 1k! Any ideas and whether I should be worried? I was hoping to use this as my main cc.
Nov 24, 2013, 4:25 am
#86
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 12
Itchy --
1) Local grocers, drug stores and a few other places (some gas stations) may offer MOs from a GC. It's a big YMMV kind of thing. You just have to explore. As far as GCs not working for this and debit working, I suspect you have something else going on. Visa brands work better than MC, per some folks. I've only used Visa, so I don't have any first hand experience. Also, some swipe / cash register systems need to have the cashier hit "debit" on the hard keyboard, not just the touchscreen. GCs should work just as well as a debit.
There are lots and lots of prepaid debits. I use them occasionally for this sort of thing. Typically, I find just getting MOs from a GC to be the fastest and easiest.
Some WMs allow $1,000 max MO, some $950 and some $500. (similar to grocers). You can do a split transaction to get more than $500 on an MO from up to 4 (typically) GCs. Most cashiers know how to do this. Some don't.
2) I've not found a difference between Moneygram and WU. I've found a lot of variation between chains and stores within a chain.
3) I'm not aware of such a list.
1) Local grocers, drug stores and a few other places (some gas stations) may offer MOs from a GC. It's a big YMMV kind of thing. You just have to explore. As far as GCs not working for this and debit working, I suspect you have something else going on. Visa brands work better than MC, per some folks. I've only used Visa, so I don't have any first hand experience. Also, some swipe / cash register systems need to have the cashier hit "debit" on the hard keyboard, not just the touchscreen. GCs should work just as well as a debit.
There are lots and lots of prepaid debits. I use them occasionally for this sort of thing. Typically, I find just getting MOs from a GC to be the fastest and easiest.
Some WMs allow $1,000 max MO, some $950 and some $500. (similar to grocers). You can do a split transaction to get more than $500 on an MO from up to 4 (typically) GCs. Most cashiers know how to do this. Some don't.
2) I've not found a difference between Moneygram and WU. I've found a lot of variation between chains and stores within a chain.
3) I'm not aware of such a list.
Nov 24, 2013, 3:43 pm
#87
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: UNited American
Posts: 60
New question
Today's paper has am ex gift cards at walgreens with no purchase fee. Since there is no pin set on these, there is not a way to use them to load BB or buy MOs that I can think of.....Am I correct? Number two. Cvs today had the Paypal reload able prepaid MasterCard with 50 ECB for a purchase of $150 or over. I bought it without really thinking it through but now wish I hadn't. I have a small PayPal account that my kids use a bit for online stuff. I went ahead and registered the card bc it looked like I couldn't get the money off any other way but I most likely don't want to continue the relationship with them. Want to cash out as quickly and cheaply as possible. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.
Nov 25, 2013, 4:55 am
#88
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 25
Today's paper has am ex gift cards at walgreens with no purchase fee. Since there is no pin set on these, there is not a way to use them to load BB or buy MOs that I can think of.....Am I correct? Number two. Cvs today had the Paypal reload able prepaid MasterCard with 50 ECB for a purchase of $150 or over. I bought it without really thinking it through but now wish I hadn't. I have a small PayPal account that my kids use a bit for online stuff. I went ahead and registered the card bc it looked like I couldn't get the money off any other way but I most likely don't want to continue the relationship with them. Want to cash out as quickly and cheaply as possible. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.
Nov 30, 2013, 1:37 pm
#89
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 12
Hey guys - newbie here.
I have two Chase sapphires (one in my name, one in my wife's name) and we need to hit 3K spend in the next 3 months.
Amazon Payments is one option but what are the other options here? I haven't bought any vanilla cards in the past. Do vanilla cards allow you to use your credit card and withdraw that cash from an ATM without fees - so which would be best to start off with?
Thanks in advance.
I have two Chase sapphires (one in my name, one in my wife's name) and we need to hit 3K spend in the next 3 months.
Amazon Payments is one option but what are the other options here? I haven't bought any vanilla cards in the past. Do vanilla cards allow you to use your credit card and withdraw that cash from an ATM without fees - so which would be best to start off with?
Thanks in advance.
Dec 1, 2013, 10:45 am
#90
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 71
Hey guys - newbie here.
I have two Chase sapphires (one in my name, one in my wife's name) and we need to hit 3K spend in the next 3 months.
Amazon Payments is one option but what are the other options here? I haven't bought any vanilla cards in the past. Do vanilla cards allow you to use your credit card and withdraw that cash from an ATM without fees - so which would be best to start off with?
Thanks in advance.
I have two Chase sapphires (one in my name, one in my wife's name) and we need to hit 3K spend in the next 3 months.
Amazon Payments is one option but what are the other options here? I haven't bought any vanilla cards in the past. Do vanilla cards allow you to use your credit card and withdraw that cash from an ATM without fees - so which would be best to start off with?
Thanks in advance.