Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Jun 20, 2014, 9:51 pm
#751
Join Date: May 2014
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, UA, DL, NSA, CIA, MIB
Posts: 537
KennyBSAT -thank you!!!
Jun 21, 2014, 12:16 pm
#752
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
Forgive me in advance if I missed something. I really did read thru the wiki and didn't find my answer, so here goes: I pre-pay for a Vanilla Reload at a retailer. That part I get.
But on the back of the Vanilla Reload card, it says for me to go to vanillareload.com to "apply my funds." I want to apply my funds into my Bluebird, so why are they sending me to the VR site? Is that just a first step, and from there I can get the funds into my BB?
Thanks
But on the back of the Vanilla Reload card, it says for me to go to vanillareload.com to "apply my funds." I want to apply my funds into my Bluebird, so why are they sending me to the VR site? Is that just a first step, and from there I can get the funds into my BB?
Thanks
Jun 21, 2014, 12:23 pm
#753
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS
Programs: SPG Plat. Marriott Plat. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Diamond. IHG Plat.
Posts: 2,580
Forgive me in advance if I missed something. I really did read thru the wiki and didn't find my answer, so here goes: I pre-pay for a Vanilla Reload at a retailer. That part I get.
But on the back of the Vanilla Reload card, it says for me to go to vanillareload.com to "apply my funds." I want to apply my funds into my Bluebird, so why are they sending me to the VR site? Is that just a first step, and from there I can get the funds into my BB?
Thanks
But on the back of the Vanilla Reload card, it says for me to go to vanillareload.com to "apply my funds." I want to apply my funds into my Bluebird, so why are they sending me to the VR site? Is that just a first step, and from there I can get the funds into my BB?
Thanks
Jun 21, 2014, 12:29 pm
#754
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
Thanks, f0xx. It looks like the first step on the VR site is to scratch off the back of card and then enter the card's 10-digit pin.
After I do that, then the next step is it asks me for my BB account number?...or something simple like that?
After I do that, then the next step is it asks me for my BB account number?...or something simple like that?
Jun 21, 2014, 12:37 pm
#755
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS
Programs: SPG Plat. Marriott Plat. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Diamond. IHG Plat.
Posts: 2,580
Yep. Just go to the site, should give you all the instructions.
Jun 21, 2014, 6:47 pm
#756
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson - Seattle
Programs: UA 1K;
Posts: 2,474
This may be the go-to classic example of "spoon feeding" we have documented..
F0xx is being very nice!
F0xx is being very nice!
Jun 21, 2014, 7:42 pm
#757
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
I agree. If you are new to this, please read around or PM someone directly. For this information on VRs, there is plenty of direction on the Vanilla site and on blogs.
Jun 21, 2014, 8:18 pm
#758
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS
Programs: SPG Plat. Marriott Plat. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Diamond. IHG Plat.
Posts: 2,580
Jun 22, 2014, 7:11 am
#759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Jun 22, 2014, 9:28 pm
#760
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
Jun 23, 2014, 4:34 am
#761
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
I respectfully disagree with your claim of plenty of direction on the Vanilla site. There is absolutely zero information on the V site about how to get your $ into BB specifically. Thus I am here, asking the help of my forum colleagues. As the wiki says from day one, don't dive into MS without reading all the posts and asking lots of questions. P.s. what's wrong with a 'nice thread' now and then.
Jun 23, 2014, 5:40 am
#762
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,101
I respectfully disagree with your claim of plenty of direction on the Vanilla site. There is absolutely zero information on the V site about how to get your $ into BB specifically. Thus I am here, asking the help of my forum colleagues. As the wiki says from day one, don't dive into MS without reading all the posts and asking lots of questions. P.s. what's wrong with a 'nice thread' now and then.
I assume the process is the same for V cards....good luck
Jun 23, 2014, 6:34 am
#763
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
I haven't loaded my BB with V cards but I have used other "gift cards" that I have purchased. For the gift cards I purchase, I have to call an 800 # listed on the card to get the PIN # that is associated with the card. Then you simply walk in to WM and ask to have your BB account loaded with $ from your "debit" card, don't say gift card. You hand the clerk your BB card, they swipe it, ask you how much $ you want to load, you tell them, then you swipe your "debit" card and enter your PIN #. Boom, done.
I assume the process is the same for V cards....good luck
I assume the process is the same for V cards....good luck
Jun 23, 2014, 8:24 pm
#764
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
I'm not going to publically participate in the ms forum section in the future due to a number of issues. But, I wanted to warn folks who are new to ms'ing that due to recent changes in debit cards, where and how they're accepted, and the growing lack of ways to liquidate them please be careful not to get over your head with cards that you can't find a way to liquidate them. You may see changes each week when you thought one way was safe last week and then this week it's gone. Some are now stuck with a lot of debit cards because a few ways to liquidate them have now been diminished. Many are leaving this hobby or scaling back a lot. The issues involve matters not necessarily brought on by ms'ers, but by other issues. Be careful.
Jun 23, 2014, 8:29 pm
#765
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
I respectfully disagree with your claim of plenty of direction on the Vanilla site. There is absolutely zero information on the V site about how to get your $ into BB specifically. Thus I am here, asking the help of my forum colleagues. As the wiki says from day one, don't dive into MS without reading all the posts and asking lots of questions. P.s. what's wrong with a 'nice thread' now and then.