Aug 2, 2013, 6:51 pm
Last edit by: CWAL
A new thread was created for the new year in 2017. This is the old thread. For the 2017 on this topic, go here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1819562-cvs-master-thread-2017-a.html
CVS is cash only for all Incomm-related reloads and reloadable cards, including Vanilla Reloads and Serve swipe reloads. See memo to stores for complete list. Other cards at CVS can still be bought using credit, but YMMV depending on location, Manager, etc.
New limits rolling out starting 10/20:
Transactions with $300 or more of card face value require ID.
Limit $2000 of card face value per 24 hour rolling period.
Limit of 10 cards per 24 hours.
Cashback posted in 48 hours.
Cash Register Freezing
Multiple reports that the CVS cash register will freeze and lock after scanning the ID when purchasing multiple prepaid cards. Then the register's computer needs to be restarted. Some report that "swiping" the ID instead of "scanning" will avoid the issue.
Limit of 7 tenders (swipes) per transaction. This is most commonly run into when using low-value AGCs. After seven, the transaction must be complete, no cash (or any other payment method) will be accepted to pay the balance.
CVS is cash only for all Incomm-related reloads and reloadable cards, including Vanilla Reloads and Serve swipe reloads. See memo to stores for complete list. Other cards at CVS can still be bought using credit, but YMMV depending on location, Manager, etc.
New limits rolling out starting 10/20:
Transactions with $300 or more of card face value require ID.
Limit $2000 of card face value per 24 hour rolling period.
Limit of 10 cards per 24 hours.
Cashback posted in 48 hours.
Cash Register Freezing
Multiple reports that the CVS cash register will freeze and lock after scanning the ID when purchasing multiple prepaid cards. Then the register's computer needs to be restarted. Some report that "swiping" the ID instead of "scanning" will avoid the issue.
Limit of 7 tenders (swipes) per transaction. This is most commonly run into when using low-value AGCs. After seven, the transaction must be complete, no cash (or any other payment method) will be accepted to pay the balance.
CVS master thread(2013-2016)
Sep 18, 2013, 4:40 am
#1981
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,470
Don't forget to wave at the helicopter that follows you home from cvs and everything is going to be alright.
This actually all started as the manager was ringing me up. I think the staff was instructed to call managment if anyone wanted to use a CC after I came in and educated (or re-educated) them on the corporate policy because everytime I come in (having only been there 3-4 times since I discovered the flush stock of VRs) the manager is called.
Now this manager would never sell me the full 5k even though that's what I always ask for. 2K was the most they were willing to do. As I was being rung up I was asked how often I buy these. I really had nothing to hide so I said I buy as much as I can (up to the limit) a few times a week. At this point I was told after this transaction I would be turned away.
Now i was really curious as I was pretty sure we were both covered by the 5k/day policy. I asked what was meant by that and I was told that "it was what it was" and that while I knew of some rules... there were others that I did not (and could not) know about.
We went back and forth like a game of tennis. I was trying to extract info about what policy/rule would have me denied the any future sale after our three successful prior transactions (using same card, same amounts and everything).
I couldn't get anything so I thanked the staff and headed for the door. The manager and I were still talking as he/she followed me out the door. We were standing infront of my car near the front of CVS when we began our hour long conversation. It really did feel like an hour but maybe it was more like 30-40 minutes.
Of the many things they let me know was that this CVS job is the easiest one to loose or get fired from. If you called out on one mistake when it comes to these federal regs (pharmaceutical or financial) you're fired.
This is why we churners make these guys VERY nervous. I have seen this same behavior with cashiers/management at Rite-aid.
Another thing we talked about was the scarcity of VRs in the area. They informed me that if the store wanted to get them they could. "Look at my supply..." they said... "Its think as a phonebook because I actually order them." @:-) Most stores in the area have stopped carrying them because they don't want to deal with the issues associated with the VRs. Again ... the risk of doing something wrong of aiding in some criminal enterprise and loosing their jobs.
I am not sure about this part but I have to admit... their supply was ample...and they were located on a very busy intersection ... next to a college.
But why, then, did I have to train them (or so I thought) on the acceptance of CC as a form of payment? Were they only feigning ignorance and selling to their regulars? Perhaps the fact that I was buying so much at a time was a cause for alarm. Maybe, in their neck of the woods, the norm is to buy 1 VR at a time.
I don't know and are some of the things I have to consider when giving the stories merit. So I will take a lot of what I was told with a grain of salt until I can get supporting or corroborating evidence.
But the thing that I did find absolutely believable was their sharing of data with whomever. I said it earlier... there is absolutely no good reason why CVS would have gone through the trouble of updating their system and upping the purchase limits to a ridiculous amount like they did. One good reason is if some governmental agency made them do it as a matter of compliance. Its not at all hard to imagine that this same agency or agencies would want full and unfettered access to this data. The fact that CVS' network is linked with your state's DMV shows a level of coordination that could only be orchestrated/ordered on the federal level. Again.... I have to figure out how to verify this claim as well but I honestly don't doubt it.
Now, we say "as long as we aren't doing anything illegal...." but as they mentioned to me... you don't want THAT kind of scrutiny on you at any cost. Even if you had your taxes prepared my Mother Teressa for the last half dozen years you may still need to hire a lawyer/CPA just to defend yourself.
Now this manager would never sell me the full 5k even though that's what I always ask for. 2K was the most they were willing to do. As I was being rung up I was asked how often I buy these. I really had nothing to hide so I said I buy as much as I can (up to the limit) a few times a week. At this point I was told after this transaction I would be turned away.
Now i was really curious as I was pretty sure we were both covered by the 5k/day policy. I asked what was meant by that and I was told that "it was what it was" and that while I knew of some rules... there were others that I did not (and could not) know about.
We went back and forth like a game of tennis. I was trying to extract info about what policy/rule would have me denied the any future sale after our three successful prior transactions (using same card, same amounts and everything).
I couldn't get anything so I thanked the staff and headed for the door. The manager and I were still talking as he/she followed me out the door. We were standing infront of my car near the front of CVS when we began our hour long conversation. It really did feel like an hour but maybe it was more like 30-40 minutes.
Of the many things they let me know was that this CVS job is the easiest one to loose or get fired from. If you called out on one mistake when it comes to these federal regs (pharmaceutical or financial) you're fired.
This is why we churners make these guys VERY nervous. I have seen this same behavior with cashiers/management at Rite-aid.
Another thing we talked about was the scarcity of VRs in the area. They informed me that if the store wanted to get them they could. "Look at my supply..." they said... "Its think as a phonebook because I actually order them." @:-) Most stores in the area have stopped carrying them because they don't want to deal with the issues associated with the VRs. Again ... the risk of doing something wrong of aiding in some criminal enterprise and loosing their jobs.
I am not sure about this part but I have to admit... their supply was ample...and they were located on a very busy intersection ... next to a college.
But why, then, did I have to train them (or so I thought) on the acceptance of CC as a form of payment? Were they only feigning ignorance and selling to their regulars? Perhaps the fact that I was buying so much at a time was a cause for alarm. Maybe, in their neck of the woods, the norm is to buy 1 VR at a time.
I don't know and are some of the things I have to consider when giving the stories merit. So I will take a lot of what I was told with a grain of salt until I can get supporting or corroborating evidence.
But the thing that I did find absolutely believable was their sharing of data with whomever. I said it earlier... there is absolutely no good reason why CVS would have gone through the trouble of updating their system and upping the purchase limits to a ridiculous amount like they did. One good reason is if some governmental agency made them do it as a matter of compliance. Its not at all hard to imagine that this same agency or agencies would want full and unfettered access to this data. The fact that CVS' network is linked with your state's DMV shows a level of coordination that could only be orchestrated/ordered on the federal level. Again.... I have to figure out how to verify this claim as well but I honestly don't doubt it.
Now, we say "as long as we aren't doing anything illegal...." but as they mentioned to me... you don't want THAT kind of scrutiny on you at any cost. Even if you had your taxes prepared my Mother Teressa for the last half dozen years you may still need to hire a lawyer/CPA just to defend yourself.
Sep 18, 2013, 5:08 am
#1982
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 112
I think it is a bigger risk to get $999 every time and get hit with structuring.
Sep 18, 2013, 5:19 am
#1983
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
one of my regular CVS's the clerk knows me, I found it odd this week that he rang up each of my VR's separately, before hand we would do the 1K x 2. We were talking and he told me this just "saves" time by doing it this way. So we didn't have to scan my ID now and he memorizes the last 4 digits on my CC. I'm off to Vermont in the morning, I wonder if I'll find VR's there.
may I ask where? We own property up north and ski there muchly. Thus, other than some WMT follies on the way, when we ski in VT on winter weekends, I have to replace one hobby with another completely.
Sep 18, 2013, 5:20 am
#1984
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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good point. But I have always wondered HOW a company can put the structuring notice on someone. Cant a customer simply be like, no, this is actually what I want to get when I shop here? how do they prove it--or is it just a matter of them thinking it and that's enough for them to do?
Sep 18, 2013, 5:21 am
#1985
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Sep 18, 2013, 6:05 am
#1987
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 97
Great movie.
It is very unlikely that a CVS manager would have any special insight into what is going on if any program were connected to a government request.
I think the limit increase was based on the implementation of the record keeping system...once they have a database that requires positive ID that can be queried upon request the compliance risk drops significantly. The fraud risk is reduced as well.
Western Union has for years allowed you to send huge amounts of money and also records information. What makes this any different?
The IRS already has access to a fair amount of credit card data, including sophisticated user profiles. Excessive MS could in theory trigger a review, but that doesn't have anything to do with your ID being scanned.
It is very unlikely that a CVS manager would have any special insight into what is going on if any program were connected to a government request.
I think the limit increase was based on the implementation of the record keeping system...once they have a database that requires positive ID that can be queried upon request the compliance risk drops significantly. The fraud risk is reduced as well.
Western Union has for years allowed you to send huge amounts of money and also records information. What makes this any different?
The IRS already has access to a fair amount of credit card data, including sophisticated user profiles. Excessive MS could in theory trigger a review, but that doesn't have anything to do with your ID being scanned.
Sep 18, 2013, 6:23 am
#1988
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
There is way too much speculation and paranoia floating around on this thread. As the saying goes, do what you're comfortable with doing, and don't get in over your head.
Sep 18, 2013, 6:24 am
#1989
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
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But western union (and moneygram) own the printer thats in stores that sell things like money orders and everything is and always has been donr behind the counter.
Handlings of Vr is a process that is still up in arms and evolving at cvs all the time it seems.
Everyone has known what a money order is since they were invented generations ago (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_order) but these vr things are scammy in the minds of OZ managers since theyve really only been around for maybe two years tops
Handlings of Vr is a process that is still up in arms and evolving at cvs all the time it seems.
Everyone has known what a money order is since they were invented generations ago (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_order) but these vr things are scammy in the minds of OZ managers since theyve really only been around for maybe two years tops
Sep 18, 2013, 6:25 am
#1990
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 97
good point. But I have always wondered HOW a company can put the structuring notice on someone. Cant a customer simply be like, no, this is actually what I want to get when I shop here? how do they prove it--or is it just a matter of them thinking it and that's enough for them to do?
Sep 18, 2013, 6:27 am
#1991
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Yeah so other than a store filing the secret SAR on ya, not much else would happen
Sep 18, 2013, 6:38 am
#1992
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 112
True, but buying $5k and getting your ID scanned is not illegal however buying $999 in VR 30 times a month to avoid a DL scan might be. Just a choice of what you are more comfortable with.
Sep 18, 2013, 6:42 am
#1993
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Im willing to take that risk as i see no harm in deciding to NOT spend money.
My wife could have told me... Hey no spending over $1k per store honey!
She is above the law
My wife could have told me... Hey no spending over $1k per store honey!
She is above the law
Sep 18, 2013, 6:52 am
#1995
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Posts: 10,052
Lol yuppers!
In fact i refer to her as management... Ie, let me run that by mamangement.
So i could even say this stuff is a bitness!
But anyway, how is a cvs gonna run a full sar on me if they dont see my id when i buy sub $1k? I may have shown it to clerks who like to double check it against a visa i use or something but its not scanned. And in fact i do believe that theres even some visa mc rule out there that says something about how if youve signed your cc, stores arent supposed to ask you for id anyway. I could be mistaken but my point is that in my cvss they either arent asking for id or just glancing to make sure the name and pic match me/cc being used. No clerk is entering anything so how could i get a sar?
In fact i refer to her as management... Ie, let me run that by mamangement.
So i could even say this stuff is a bitness!
But anyway, how is a cvs gonna run a full sar on me if they dont see my id when i buy sub $1k? I may have shown it to clerks who like to double check it against a visa i use or something but its not scanned. And in fact i do believe that theres even some visa mc rule out there that says something about how if youve signed your cc, stores arent supposed to ask you for id anyway. I could be mistaken but my point is that in my cvss they either arent asking for id or just glancing to make sure the name and pic match me/cc being used. No clerk is entering anything so how could i get a sar?