FrankMS

As long as you have a bank willing to take $15-20K per month, that certainly looks better for you.

NoonRadar

Is it better to do more frequent trips to the bank with lower cumulative MO deposits per trip, or the other way around? I've tried to not deposit more than $4-$5K/trip (biz checking) but sometimes that means more frequent visits to deposit.

I just assumed that depositing a ton of MOs per trip with similar $ amounts has a higher chance of a cashier/supervisor reporting it as suspicious. On the other hand if we're being monitored for suspicious activities anyhow would more frequent depositing trips seem more suspicious?

12HRS

starte depositing over 10k and avoid concerns of structuring IMO

tuphat

Still waiting for explanation/information behind your comment.

NoonRadar

I suppose. Though wouldn't over $10K MO deposits also get you reported for suspicious activities? I don't deposit any more frequently than a couple of days apart so I am not sure if that'd also be seen as a structuring attempt. Also at least some of the MOs in deposit 1 vs 2 would typically have different dates on them.

Alcibiades

That is the definition of Intent.

andyandy

Intent to do something. Intent to structure, though? Nah, CTRs aren't triggered by MO deposits. And you can't structure to avoid SARs, per statute.

But yeah, I get your point, Alcibiades. Even if I did intentionally avoid large MO deposits, I wouldn't go around saying that I intentionally avoided large MO deposits.

As for me, I'll take this opportunity to opine that notoriety is your friend in this field. One trigger of SARs is activity that is out of the norm for a particular customer. So make large deposits normal. Another trigger is activity involving funds that may be the product of criminal activity. Never try to hide anything, because ultimately you can't. And trying to obfuscate what you are doing will probably just make you look suspicious and possibly criminal. YMMV, but I've had great success with the MS cycle years. I am always honest and friendly, and most of the tellers, CSRs and managers at all stages of my MS cycle know what I'm doing and are fine with it.

Andyandy

Andy2

But wouldn't you concede that if a customer who was not known by the bank to be in "cash business" continuously deposited $4-$5 K in cash every few days, he would get SARs filed? If the solution was for him to continuously purchase money orders with 1K in cash on a continuous basis, it would be a very simple way for him to avoid SARs from the bank as a result of depositing 4-5k of cash on a continuous basis (although the money order seller should be doing SARs). But the bank is instructed to consider filing SARs for significant money order deposits in the various non-authoritative guidance, presumably because the government recognizes that money orders are available for purchase in most cities at locations every few blocks. So the bank is made a significant penalty target for failing to file SARs for money order deposits, as they are the perceived as the easiest target to keep folks from being able to successfully avoid CTRs (and SARs) from doing a cash - money order - deposit of money order scheme to get cash in the banking system. Sure the bank can be informed that the money orders were purchased with prepaid cards that were purchased with credit cards for reward points / cash back. But it is impossible for the bank to truly verify this just by looking at the money order. So we see a lot of bank account closures for money order deposits, which are likely accompanied by the filing of SARs.

I know I am still in the minority on this, but I prefer to mail each money order in a separate envelope to the credit card company used for MSing. While it might increase the chance of a credit card closure since it lays out the MS activity, it also seems to minimize the chance of SARs. There is nothing suspicious. I used the credit card to buy money orders (via prepaid debit cards) and I used the money orders to pay the credit card bills. No rational reason for a SAR to be filed since there is nothing suspicious.

It also minimizes the hassles upon an IRS audit. The standard technique for IRS audits of individual returns is for the agent to gain an understanding of all bank deposits. It would be a pain to take them through the process, including substantiation, of possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars of bank deposits over a possible three year period. It is rare, unless they are conducting a lifestyle analysis, for an IRS agent to request credit card statements.

The difference between the two approaches is really just stamps and completing an envelope. Of course, MSing has declined in profitability over the years, so it is largely a theoretical discussion now.

schrute

What are the odds of me getting an SAR and what is the negative? I went to my local USPS and asked for a money order. I said I had two gift cards that I need to split it across. The first lady said she couldn't do it without a supervisor, so I went back in line and asked the other associate, who said he could do it, but perked up with I said gift card. He proceeded to grab my cards and make photo-copies and asked for my driver's license which he wrote down my name/number on it. He said that he'll proceed with my transaction now, but he needs a supervisor in the future to approve. He said there's some scams going on with gift cards. In order to not raise suspicion, I proceeded with everything like it was normal and didn't hesitate on anything. Only did 1 money order for $1,000 across two cards.

The gift cards were purchased with a new AMEX of mine, I used the MO to MS and deposited it to my bank account.

So now I'm freaking out a bit about having an SAR. I decided to keep the original receipts with the boxes to show my credit card (in my name).

Amex For Children Of Africa

Why did you say they were giftcards... First(and huge) mistake right there.

Mamibear

For $1K MO, the odds of SAR filed against you won't be too high, but that is just conjecture on my part.

since you're a noobie, I suggest you go over the new to manufacturer spending thread, read also the past years, there's a lot of information there useful for newbies that you will learn from.

To give you some of the basics:
1. NEVER, ever say you're paying with a GC; when asked, say you're paying with Visa or Mastercard DEBIT. If, by chance they ask to see the card, do NOT switch to a real bank DC to show, the odds that they'll notice is very high and you'll likely be busted and BANNED. Best to show them what you got and if they say it's a GC and it's not allowed, say you didn't know and leave quietly.

2. Best NOT to engage with power tripping personnel if they make their own rules. Just leave quietly and try again when there's a different person working. You do NOT burn bridges with this method but if you make a scene, consider that location toast!

3. Amex prepaids with PIN and GCs do NOT work like debit cards that require a PIN. You can't use them to buy MOs anywhere EXCEPT some rare stores that accept credit card payments for MOs. They are always processed as credit, never debit.

There's a ton of info you need to learn as you go along. Hopefully, you don't burn your bridges too soon when you commit huge mistakes. It's best for you to read a lot and know the ropes, then do small trial purchases ($1K is a huge amount to try for newbies)especially when buying MOs because it's easy to wiggle out of sticky situations with small amounts compared to buying $1K at once doing split transactions where everything can go wrong. IMO, split transactions are reserved for those who have a lot more experience with MS and know a lot of back up methods.

Good luck and Happy 4th!

Ultraboost

Jesus f'ing christ you are ruining it for us all by blatantly telling them they are GCs. You clearly have not done enough research on here. On the other thread you stated you live in CA, which is where I live too but never answered which city. I seriously hope you didn't ruined it for me and others.

pharmawalk

This is frustrating for me too.

schrute

I made a mistake. When they asked, I was a bit out of it, so I said the first thing in my mind. The guy took the cards right out of my hand.

Jeez guys, be a little supportive. I'm not rolling in thousands of dollars here, I just did one.

One person isn't going to ruin it.

schrute

This wasn't my first time. I usually say debit card and normally there isn't any problems. This branch has problems with everything. I didn't want to get on the train and go to another branch elsewhere and thought I could handle it this time. I'm at the end of my MS anyways, this is the last card I'm doing for a long while. I go not very often, $1K every other week.

Also, it's not like I'm only walking in there for MOs, I do MOs very infrequent, and not common at all. I do other packages and ship items. The guy has seen me before and has interacted before. We've talked before, he's picked up packages. I feel like he was just following some script. He was like I'll let you do it this time.