Wal-Mart, Amex take on banks with Bluebird debit card
Jan 9, 2013, 7:55 am
#5446
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,689
What I meant to say is that -ofcourse VR will be able to tell but it won't be done by first line CSR. The fact that they have my card # where I moved VR money does not give them right to look at my card account. It needs to be done as part of an investigation (probably criminal investigation since money has been stolen) and may be law enforcement involvement is required !
Each time the CSR has absolutely no problem pulling up the VR card number and being able to tell how much is on the card or not. This does not take an investigator or law enforcement to figure out.
Jan 9, 2013, 7:55 am
#5447
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,998
The OP clearly stated: VR has confirmed that the funds were removed by someone after purchase and then withdrawn from wherever they were deposited. The money is gone.
Jan 9, 2013, 8:03 am
#5448
Formerly known as fsa_ea
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS/1MM,AS 75k,NK GLD,AA 2MM,DL 2MM,LH FT,AY PLT,IC RA,FMT LT PLT,HYT GLB,HLT DIA,MRT GLD,HRTZ PC
Posts: 2,229
What I meant to say is that -ofcourse VR will be able to tell but it won't be done by first line CSR. The fact that they have my card # where I moved VR money does not give them right to look at my card account. It needs to be done as part of an investigation (probably criminal investigation since money has been stolen) and may be law enforcement involvement is required !
Jan 9, 2013, 8:07 am
#5449
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
Fascinating story on the Vanilla cards and a warning for all of us. I had read of similar problems when this whole thing started - i.e. criminals going into stores, taking various load cards and getting the numbers from them, returning them to the store, then using scrips to simply try and load the cards every hour or so until it works (i.e. within an hour of a person buying and activating them)
For Reloadit cards, which I use more than Vanilla, you are required to enter not just the PIN code but also the amount loaded and the zip code where you purchased the card. Not fool-proof but a couple of extra levels of security that make it a little more challenging (any thief inside or out would know the zip code that they are being sold in, and the script could simply try every combination from $0.01 up to $500, so 50k attempts per hour - though in theory this should then be noticed by the IT of the load network. Not much help if an inside job)
I think before we all got involved it was a handful of no-income types losing $50 a time. Now there is a more vocal, educated and wealthy group losing $500 at a time, I'd expect to see some changes come out of it all
For Reloadit cards, which I use more than Vanilla, you are required to enter not just the PIN code but also the amount loaded and the zip code where you purchased the card. Not fool-proof but a couple of extra levels of security that make it a little more challenging (any thief inside or out would know the zip code that they are being sold in, and the script could simply try every combination from $0.01 up to $500, so 50k attempts per hour - though in theory this should then be noticed by the IT of the load network. Not much help if an inside job)
I think before we all got involved it was a handful of no-income types losing $50 a time. Now there is a more vocal, educated and wealthy group losing $500 at a time, I'd expect to see some changes come out of it all
Jan 9, 2013, 8:18 am
#5450
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: JFK > LGA >> EWR
Programs: AA EXP 1.2mm, Kimpton IC, Starwood Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,180
Down the road from the MET 95% sure 85th and Lex does. By around the back I mean there is a display in the front near doors / register, but if you go to the "isles" you'll seed another card island either on the end of the aisle or in the shelving of the isle - if that makes sense. Stacks were thick.
Jan 9, 2013, 8:49 am
#5451
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,166
When I'm at target buying regular stuff they sometimes ask for the last 4 on the CC used. I've memorized all the cards I use frequently and just speak the numbers that they promptly enter. They've never asked to actually see the card though as long as the transaction goes through.
Jan 9, 2013, 8:49 am
#5452
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 327
I call into the unload the funds from the VR each time and have at times used the CSR instead of the automated system.
Each time the CSR has absolutely no problem pulling up the VR card number and being able to tell how much is on the card or not. This does not take an investigator or law enforcement to figure out.
Each time the CSR has absolutely no problem pulling up the VR card number and being able to tell how much is on the card or not. This does not take an investigator or law enforcement to figure out.
Jan 9, 2013, 9:48 am
#5453
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,689
and in plain english this would mean........??
do you mean the $ on VR moved 'to' xx account? or moved to 'yy' account and then VR confirmed it was moved off 'yy' account?
I doubt they have any access to see balances on 'yy' account (but obviously could be investigated).
Jan 9, 2013, 9:50 am
#5454
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
I am not sure I understand this trick, but one thing you need to watch out for is the 1099. As a payment processing outfit, like Amazon Payments, Bluebird (or AMEX Travel Services Company) should issue 1099-k if your gross payment volume is over 20k AND you did 200 transaction. My understanding of the gross payment volume is the total incoming payments into BB. Assuming all of us load 5k monthly, it would be 60k annually.
The 200 transactions: (again my understanding is the incomming transactions that put money into BB), if done by VR load at 10 transactions per month would end up to be 120 transactions per year which is under the threshold to trigger 1099.
Any loads over 5k a month will either put you over the 200 transaction threshold or would be dangerously close to it.
I am not a tax professional but this is my understanding of the 1099-k issuance. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
The 200 transactions: (again my understanding is the incomming transactions that put money into BB), if done by VR load at 10 transactions per month would end up to be 120 transactions per year which is under the threshold to trigger 1099.
Any loads over 5k a month will either put you over the 200 transaction threshold or would be dangerously close to it.
I am not a tax professional but this is my understanding of the 1099-k issuance. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
In any event, you are dead wrong. I am a tax expert (with over 32 years of experience working at the IRS) and I can assure you that you have grossly misstated the Form 1099-K issuance requirements.
In a nutshell, a Form 1099-K is used solely to report payments made to merchants for goods and services in settlement of payment card and third-party payment network transactions. The financial institution or third-party network must have a contractual obligation to make payments to you as a participating payee before any kind of reporting obligation is triggered. No such contractual obligation exists with respect to the deposits made to your Bluebird account from any source, including VR cards.
Hopefully, this will allay the concerns of those who read your post.
Jan 9, 2013, 9:52 am
#5455
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,689
the outcome of this entire story is going to be an interesting storyline to the procession of the VR.
Jan 9, 2013, 9:56 am
#5456
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Long Beach
Programs: HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,171
Jan 9, 2013, 10:24 am
#5457
Formerly known as fsa_ea
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS/1MM,AS 75k,NK GLD,AA 2MM,DL 2MM,LH FT,AY PLT,IC RA,FMT LT PLT,HYT GLB,HLT DIA,MRT GLD,HRTZ PC
Posts: 2,229
One CSR said that she gets 2-3 calls a week re: "money being loaded to someone else's account". She went on to say that they need to tighten their security. I take all of these comments with a grain of salt...
Jan 9, 2013, 10:36 am
#5458
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
They need to add a third security key to unlock the PIN (at a minimum), a key that only the purchaser would know. Also, they need to freeze any account to which a VR is loaded if too many unsuccessful attempts were made (ideally three) within a set period of time. The thief would then have to call VR to get the funds loaded and provide detailed information that can be verified in real time. Finally, they need to fire the consultant (in-house or outside) who designed or approved their security system (assuming they even have a security system).
Jan 9, 2013, 10:41 am
#5460
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 639
Ain't that the truth! Any sophisticated thief with a random number generator can come up with activated cards that have not been unloaded. Anyone ever notice that all PINs begin with the number "6?" How ridiculous is that - it just makes the thief's job easier still.
They need to add a third security key to unlock the PIN (at a minimum), a key that only the purchaser would know. Also, they need to freeze any account to which a VR is loaded if too many unsuccessful attempts were made (ideally three) within a set period of time. The thief would then have to call VR to get the funds loaded and provide detailed information that can be verified in real time. Finally, they need to fire the consultant (in-house or outside) who designed or approved their security system (assuming they even have a security system).
They need to add a third security key to unlock the PIN (at a minimum), a key that only the purchaser would know. Also, they need to freeze any account to which a VR is loaded if too many unsuccessful attempts were made (ideally three) within a set period of time. The thief would then have to call VR to get the funds loaded and provide detailed information that can be verified in real time. Finally, they need to fire the consultant (in-house or outside) who designed or approved their security system (assuming they even have a security system).
