Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
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Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
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FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.
Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.
When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the
button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
In order to a) keep the original thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and b) allow folks a place to discuss their ideas about what might have happened, the MH370 moderators and Community Director have decided to open this thread.
Here are the expectations:
1. The normal FT TOS apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected respect our diversity , and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously, information that has been posted in the News thread wiki or FAQ, may be deleted. E.g. the aircraft was vaporized.
In terms of housekeeping, posts may get moved from the "news" thread if and as needed, and posts that do not conform to these simple expectations, above, will be deleted.
Also note: this wiki is locked; changes can only be made by moderators.
Thank you.
Your MH370 Moderation Team
aBroadAbroad; cblaisd; JDiver; l'etoile; NewbieRunner; oliver2002; Prospero
and Community Director
SanDiego1K
MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
Mar 16, 2014, 6:59 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: Miles & More, Amex
Posts: 678
At todays Press conference Malaysia Airlines CEO said the cargo on the Boeing 777-200 ER plane was checked and scanned according to standard procedures. “We examined the cargo manifest, it contains no hazardous goods,”
http://m.themalaymailonline.com/mala....WvP8oMM7.dpuf
This is an interesting non-answer because the idea of explosion or fire - which could have been caused by hazardous cargo - has been already discounted.
The question still remains: was there anything in the cargo that might have caused someone to want to steal it or destroy it?
http://m.themalaymailonline.com/mala....WvP8oMM7.dpuf
This is an interesting non-answer because the idea of explosion or fire - which could have been caused by hazardous cargo - has been already discounted.
The question still remains: was there anything in the cargo that might have caused someone to want to steal it or destroy it?
After arrival from a flight from Beijing, baggage handlers were unloading 80 canisters weighing 2,000kg when they were hit by the strong toxic fumes. Five ground handlers became ill while unloading the canisters.
A check by airport fire and rescue personnel revealed the canisters contained a chemical called oxalyl chloride. Several canisters had leaked, causing severe damage to the aircraft fuselage. The aircraft was considered damaged beyond repair.
After a fice-year lawsuit a Beijing court ordered Dalian, a Chinese state-run company, to pay USD65 million in compensation, plus interest, for destroying the Airbus A330 with falsely declared cargo with corrosive chemicals. The company had mis-identified the canisters as being a safe powder-type chemical.
A check by airport fire and rescue personnel revealed the canisters contained a chemical called oxalyl chloride. Several canisters had leaked, causing severe damage to the aircraft fuselage. The aircraft was considered damaged beyond repair.
After a fice-year lawsuit a Beijing court ordered Dalian, a Chinese state-run company, to pay USD65 million in compensation, plus interest, for destroying the Airbus A330 with falsely declared cargo with corrosive chemicals. The company had mis-identified the canisters as being a safe powder-type chemical.
Mar 16, 2014, 7:50 am
#17
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 589
If you pay a prime rate your shippment goes either on the next connection OR a specific flight chosen by the customer.
If you go just "normal" your freight sits in a hold at an airport's hanger waiting for space available. It's like stand-by.
BUT when your shippment is worth over 44,000,000 USD you don't play Cheap Charly.
Last edited by Fan2502; Mar 16, 2014 at 7:58 am
Mar 16, 2014, 9:51 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 561
I
What I ultimately mean is, if it is really that easy to fly undetected around that part of the world, then I would expect something like weekly hijackings and terrorist attacks from the sky. And yet it does not happen, which leads me to assumption military ATCs in those countries are more responsive and prepared than they appear in these media reports.
What I ultimately mean is, if it is really that easy to fly undetected around that part of the world, then I would expect something like weekly hijackings and terrorist attacks from the sky. And yet it does not happen, which leads me to assumption military ATCs in those countries are more responsive and prepared than they appear in these media reports.
Mar 16, 2014, 10:01 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 47
That's exactly my point - I am not convinced they are really so ineffective. Because such ineffectiveness would make an open invitation to all terrorists of this world to come and take advantage of it. I can think of a handful of countries that would allow something like that but Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam and India certainly do not belong there.
Mar 16, 2014, 10:22 am
#20
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
What gives this tangent legs is that you don't just block 50 seats out of a 777 at random. Did MAS see that bookings were light for that flight and at some point block seats so that a specific cargo shipment could go that night? Or was it a regular shipment?
MANman, you deserve kudos for relentlessly not dropping this take on the story. Let's nail down all of the basics, including what was on the plane that night, and how did it get there.
MANman, you deserve kudos for relentlessly not dropping this take on the story. Let's nail down all of the basics, including what was on the plane that night, and how did it get there.
Mar 16, 2014, 10:26 am
#21
Moderator, El Al and Marriott Bonvoy, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ*G, Mar LTT, Hyatt Glb, AA LTG, LY, HH, IC, BA, DL, UA SLV
Posts: 12,018
Who is "we"? The various international agencies and gov'ts need to follow international protocol, at least publicly. The NTSB and FAA are already involved. How exactly are the "most capable people" supposed to act outside of protocol?
Mar 16, 2014, 11:05 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HPN
Programs: not anymore! I'm FREE!
Posts: 3,459
If the authorities (US, Malaysian, Chinese or whoever) knew for sure that the plane is now in Afghanistan or somewhere, would they tell the media immediately?
Or would they first go and find it?
@:-)
Mar 16, 2014, 9:51 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 125
Slate is asserting that the pilot's political leanings are being sensationalized.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html
He seems like a dedicated pilot, family and community ties (suggestions that he had recently separated from his wife but also denials of same), with three daughters and what appears to be an enviable lifestyle - I don't know anything about psychological profiles in cases like this but by all accounts he is/was dedicated to his career. Does that seem like someone who would risk the lives of the souls entrusted to him after a decades-long career?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html
He seems like a dedicated pilot, family and community ties (suggestions that he had recently separated from his wife but also denials of same), with three daughters and what appears to be an enviable lifestyle - I don't know anything about psychological profiles in cases like this but by all accounts he is/was dedicated to his career. Does that seem like someone who would risk the lives of the souls entrusted to him after a decades-long career?
Last edited by ejong; Mar 16, 2014 at 9:52 pm Reason: Typo correction
Mar 16, 2014, 10:01 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Programs: UA MR UR AA
Posts: 107
Slate is asserting that the pilot's political leanings are being sensationalized.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html
Mar 16, 2014, 10:29 pm
#25
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle
Programs: Costco Club
Posts: 1,155
I live in Malaysia and the article is pretty accurate. The opposition party that the Captain supported won more than 50% of the popular vote in the last election in May 2013 even though the party lost the election due to gerrymandering. It's actually pretty common to find someone with his level of dedication to that opposition party.
Mar 16, 2014, 10:41 pm
#26
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 514
As mentioned upthread, the Malaysian Government PM has stated in no uncertain terms that he believes that MH370 was "diverted deliberately". Assuming that the PM is telling the truth, the following questions arise:
Did the "diverter" intend to land the aircraft?
If yes, what did the "diverter" intend to do with the pax? Even if such a person were so evil as to want to kill all of them, it is not that easy to do without any firearms.
Furthermore, did the "diverter" have contact with a landing facility beforehand? Is there any NSA-type surveillance of said communications?
If no (ie: a suicide mission), why fly the jet for several hours instead of just ditching immediately after the diversion?
In case there are any objections to the suppositions above, the following link quotes the Malaysian PM: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4969855.html
Did the "diverter" intend to land the aircraft?
If yes, what did the "diverter" intend to do with the pax? Even if such a person were so evil as to want to kill all of them, it is not that easy to do without any firearms.
Furthermore, did the "diverter" have contact with a landing facility beforehand? Is there any NSA-type surveillance of said communications?
If no (ie: a suicide mission), why fly the jet for several hours instead of just ditching immediately after the diversion?
In case there are any objections to the suppositions above, the following link quotes the Malaysian PM: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4969855.html
Last edited by cblaisd; Mar 16, 2014 at 11:01 pm Reason: Removed meta suggestion to the moderators. Thanks.
Mar 16, 2014, 11:58 pm
#27
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
This Tomnod image is being bandied about on PPRuNe.
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014/map/637975
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014/map/637975
Mar 17, 2014, 12:00 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 90
The more information comes to light, the more it seems to indicate that the person who took the plane off course had a careful plan and was headed on a pre-planned trajectory or to a pre-planned destination. He followed the waypoints and apparently flew low to avoid radar, suggesting this was thought out in advance. His intent was clearly not to commit suicide, at least right away, or he wouldn't have engaged in all the complicated maneuvers to keep the plane going. So the conclusion would seem to be that he was aiming for somewhere, either to commit a terrorist attack or to land the plane somewhere for reasons which are not yet clear. He did not commit a terrorist attack, for whatever reason. So it seems clear to me that the remaining choices are: something went wrong and he was prevented from committing a terrorist attack or from landing the plane; or he did in fact land the plane. If something went wrong, either he did not foresee all eventualities and the plane went down, or there was resistance inside the plane, and his plan was foiled.
If he intended to and succeeded in landing the plane, why no passengers have managed to make contact with the outside world, and no landings have been reported, is an open question. It seems unlikely that this would be the case, but in fact all the possibilities right now are unlikely. The question is which one of the unlikely possibilities is the truth.
If this is too speculative, the mods may want to remove it. As I see it, it's not so much speculation as common sense. There really are a limited number of possibilities left.
If he intended to and succeeded in landing the plane, why no passengers have managed to make contact with the outside world, and no landings have been reported, is an open question. It seems unlikely that this would be the case, but in fact all the possibilities right now are unlikely. The question is which one of the unlikely possibilities is the truth.
If this is too speculative, the mods may want to remove it. As I see it, it's not so much speculation as common sense. There really are a limited number of possibilities left.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:19 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AAPLT, RR Alist
Posts: 220
Would like to see the source - a drilling rig? Sunken ship? Dunno, but the presence of what appears to be a small boat cutting across one of the streams kind of suggests it's a known source (545179.).
Any way to determine long/lat of these maps? I'd like to compare it to Google Earth imagery, see if it's a known source, or if it's "new."
Any way to determine long/lat of these maps? I'd like to compare it to Google Earth imagery, see if it's a known source, or if it's "new."
I don't know if you can tell where the tomnod segments come from in the overall scheme of things.
Now....in that segment in the tomnod link that DocSavage just posted....is that for real? though..maybe that's a plane in the air. So intact.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:58 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 91
This Tomnod image is being bandied about on PPRuNe.
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014/map/637975
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014/map/637975
Has this particular image been manipulated by the folks at Tomnod?