carrotjuice

Indeed. To add, whatever poor alternative offered by the airline was NOT the original service purchased - hence contract was void, and parties should be restituted as if the contract did not exist.

Often1

Although, again I would be careful to frame this under the law applicable to the ticket. That works quite well in the US, Canada and most of Europe. Not necessarily everywhere.

Bear in mind that card issuers do not make social judgments about what is right. Rather, they implement what is clear. If they go beyond that, the payment of the chargeback is on their books. Many issuers do this for very good customers on relatively small amounts. But, in this environment where cash is a scarce commodity, Put simply, if your card issuer grants you a credit which is not paid by the merchant acquirer or enforced against the merchant (air carrier in this case), it absorbs the loss.

GGLwannabe

Update: Having re-disputed the charge for my cancelled flights, I first received an acknowledgement from Amex, saying they would need to investigate further, but in the meantime the amount in question did not need to be paid, although it would remain as a debit on my account. Several days later, presumably after someone in their disputes department had read through all of the documents I had uploaded, I received a further letter stating that the charge would be again removed from my account, but that it could be re-imposed if Malaysian were to come back with further relevant information in support of their contention that no refund is due.

I can't imagine that Malaysian will let this go without a fight, so I expect a further round of documentation from them attempting to support their position. Depending on what that contains, I will either dispute the charge again, or will launch the Section 75 charge-back procedure. I will update here as and when ...

ellielovesem

Do you mind me asking what extra documentation you provided? My sister tried a dispute with BankWest in Australia but they came back with a no, I don't think they even submitted it to Malaysian. I think the crux of it has to be the fare difference thing which is the sticking point for her, happy to rebook for next year (if they're still functioning!) but not with paying extra. What they are offering is not an equivalent product so surely they are in the wrong over that?

warakorn

Have your sister applied for a chargeback in a written form - or did she just call her bank and was fobbed off?

GGLwannabe

Not at all. I simply provided copies of my itinerary, Malaysian's flight cancellation emails, plus a Word document making two points: 1) that a flight that is sold as non-refundable, is certainly non-refundable if the passenger chooses not to fly, but it cannot be non-refundable if the airline cancels the flight; and 2) that the voucher I was offered did not have the same value as the flights that were cancelled as it could not be used for online bookings, which are cheaper than booking made through a call-centre. The onus is now on Malaysian to prove that both of these points are in line with their terms and conditions.

If they were prepared to give me a voucher that I could use to pay for an online booking I would have been perfectly content, but a voucher can only be used through a call-centre, does not offer me full restitution, and as you say, I think that may be the clinch argument for Amex. If your sister provides proof that her flights were cancelled by the airline, her bank must, I believe, initiate their dispute procedure.

ellielovesem

It was in writing.

Thanks, I will pass this information on. She submitted another refund request to Malaysian at the weekend on the off chance and they came back with a more thorough response than originally which will work well for a second dispute. Seems short sighted of them to charge the fare difference, I'm sure there are many customers who would also be happy with a voucher for a like for like flight.

As an afterthought, is it in writing anywhere that the call centre don't have access to the sale flights? Her latest response says to rebook via the call centre but the only reason we knew about the lack of sales fares is because I read it here.

I'll update as and when she hears anything.

carrotjuice

Not aware of anything in writing. But many of us in this forum would know whenever MH does their online sales, when you try calling up to book, the operator would tell you that the cheaper / sale fares are strictly available online, which they themselves do not have access to.

Zeeww

I had similar experience to OP’s with MH for cancelled flights earlier this year due to Covid travel waiver.

- KUL to SIN (travelling mid feb and booked late Jan, non refundable ticket)
- MH issued travel waiver (Full refund/Free change in early feb, as Singapore wouldn’t allow anyone that’s been in China 14 days prior to enter/transit
- I flew from China to KL early Feb on MH
- called MH customer service to cancel my KUL/SIN flight as I wouldn’t been able to enter SIN, MH asked for evidence which I gave my China to KL e-ticket details, which was verified
- agent confirmed I qualified for full refund and being sent to refunds team to process, should take 6-8 weeks
- called every 4 weeks to check progress, being told “in process”, but if I change my mind to take voucher they could process immediately
- no refunds received in May (12 weeks later), dispute charges with Amex and similar experience to OP
- MH provided some incomprehensible evidence to Amex to reject my dispute, after which I wrote a letter, attached a screenshot of the travel waiver and details of my travel history, and a sequence of events to Amex
- the disputed amount has since been held from my balance (ie no need to be paid), but the case isn’t closed yet

It’s disgraceful what MH is trying to do, and I’m taking this all the way as there’s no way they should keep customers money when we qualify under their cancellation policies/waivers.

godbreath

I tried to do a chargeback with AMEX as well for my MH flight, but the chargeback form specifically said if this if for an airline ticket and the airlines is offering a credit, then no chargeback will be given.

GGLwannabe

The major point at issue is that the vouchers being offered by MH do not have the same value as the cost of the cancelled flights, as they cannot be used to purchase flights online, only through an MH call centre, which does not have access to the lower online prices.

I'm pretty sure Amex wouldn't take the stance outlined above if the vouchers being issued by the airline were for a face value of anything less than the total amount paid for the cancelled flight(s). In this case the face value may appear to be be the same as the value of the cancelled flights, but the voucher does not have the same purchasing power as cash, so is not a proper alternative.

Zeeww

My dispute with Amex has been successful. Case closed with amount credited back to my Amex.

Good luck!

GGLwannabe

SUMMARY
Having originally had the cost of my MH ticket credited back to my Amex account on April 28th, it was then uncredited on July 8th, after Amex received a response from MH. It was however recredited on July 13th after I pointed out to Amex that the voucher MH were offering did not constitute proper restitution, and that most of MH's documentation in support of their assertion that my ticket should not be refunded was spurious.

It's now October 5th, and having heard nothing further I checked the status of my dispute and it seems that I am home and dry:





I am inferring from this, that Amex accepts that Malaysian Airline's offer of a voucher which can only be used to purchase higher-priced fares from a call centre is not proper restitution for flights cancelled by the airline.

It is clearly worth persisting!

warakorn

Thank you for keeping us up-to-date!

carrotjuice

Well done! But I do wonder who has stomached the cost of restoring the credit to you? Is it MH, having had Amex reversed the payment? Or does MH continue to keep the payment but Amex decided to pay out of pocket (as part of their marketing of the card)? I hope it’s not the latter, because MH definitely does NOT deserve to keep any of the payment - having not delivered the service that you had originally purchased, and the alternative offered was nowhere close to what you had wanted to purchase.