Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
WELCOME, MODERATOR GUIDELINES and SUMMARY
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING
If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk! Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that covers the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel (not politics or arguments about politics or religion, etc.)
All travelers are welcome in the community. Just choose a forum: conversing about airlines and their programs, airports, destinations, dining and how to make the most of your miles and points, or visit our Information Desk to start.
We do have some Rules, and everyone agrees to abide by these when they are granted free membership privileges. On a topic that generates a lot of feelings and perspectives, please remember "welcoming, respectful" are key words on FlyerTalk.
As with the earlier MH370 thread, please observe the following in this thread:
1. The normal FT Rules apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected to respect our diversity, and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions or depictions (or links to same) that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously may be summarily deleted. Moderator actions may not be discussed in posts on FlyerTalk.
5. In addition, those who repeatedly fail to comply with FlyerTalk Rules or the guidelines for this thread, may be subjected to FlyerTalk disciplinary actions and have membership privileges suspended, forum masks, etc.
FT MH 017 / Other Asian, Australian, and South Pacific Forum Moderation Team:
ABroadAbroad
cblaisd
JDiver
NewbieRunner
for the MH 17 Moderation Team
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note.
N. B. PLEASE SEE THE FAQ IN POST NO. 1.
OTHER FORA OF INTEREST:
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 7:27 pm
#616
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: QLA
Programs: SBUX Gold
Posts: 14,507
I REALLY hope MH management learned important lessons from how poorly they handed the MH370 situation. They may not be at fault for MH17, but crises handling isn't exactly their strong suit.
Last edited by cblaisd; Jul 17, 2014 at 7:55 pm Reason: Removed quote of and response to off-topic post
Jul 17, 2014, 7:57 pm
#617
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
Join Date: Jun 2000
Programs: Honors Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle, National Exec Elite
Posts: 36,026
A reminder that questions about general aviation safety for a particular aircraft are not on-topic for this thread. If you wish to discuss that, you may wish to find a thread in, e.g., Travel Buzz or start one.
Thank you.
cblaisd
On behalf of the MH17 moderation team
Thank you.
cblaisd
On behalf of the MH17 moderation team
Jul 17, 2014, 8:10 pm
#618
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
I don't think anyone is going to be changing this at any time soon. I really would have zero worries about getting on a Europe -> Asia flight at the moment.
Jul 17, 2014, 8:42 pm
#619
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: BOS/BTV
Programs: Delta Plat, former AA EXP, AS Gold, SPG Gold, IHG Plat.
Posts: 659
With so many Russian military assets stationed on the Ukraine-Russian border, Russian Air Defense must have a pretty clear picture of where the SAM missile came from that downed MH17. US intelligence has already verified they detected the launch and detonation through US satellite means.
Both sides will need to review and analyze their data to verify the information they have, and it will be interesting to see how it is released.
It seemed especially worrisome, however, that Putin went on the air this evening to blame the tragedy entirely on the Ukrainian government "because they have failed to keep the peace in that area of Ukraine..." as if trying to deflect focus from the culpability of whoever launched the missile. Surely the Russians know more than they are telling....
I am heartsick for the families and friends of the victims, and for the loss of so many innocent lives.
Both sides will need to review and analyze their data to verify the information they have, and it will be interesting to see how it is released.
It seemed especially worrisome, however, that Putin went on the air this evening to blame the tragedy entirely on the Ukrainian government "because they have failed to keep the peace in that area of Ukraine..." as if trying to deflect focus from the culpability of whoever launched the missile. Surely the Russians know more than they are telling....
I am heartsick for the families and friends of the victims, and for the loss of so many innocent lives.
Jul 17, 2014, 8:49 pm
#620
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT G (1MM);DL G, UA GM
Posts: 2,028
Lucky, the blogger who writes One Mile at a Time, was on [a flight that took off at almost the same time] and shares his (very shaken) reaction. At least he didn't learn about it from a reporter sticking a microphone in his face.
Last edited by cblaisd; Jul 17, 2014 at 9:08 pm Reason: Redacted for clarity's sake
Jul 17, 2014, 8:53 pm
#621
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: ICH Platinum, Le Accor Platinum, Mariott Silver, Flying Returns Silver, Krisflyer Gold
Posts: 135
"This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 [32,000ft] but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying."-European air traffic control
So you guys knew it was a war zone, you guys knew that separatists had BUK which can shoot aircraft flying around 43k, you guys knew that couple of aircraft(AN-26) were shot over the past few days in the same region and still you guys allowed civilian aircraft to fly in that space? Never understood few things on this planet #greed #senselessness #MH17
So you guys knew it was a war zone, you guys knew that separatists had BUK which can shoot aircraft flying around 43k, you guys knew that couple of aircraft(AN-26) were shot over the past few days in the same region and still you guys allowed civilian aircraft to fly in that space? Never understood few things on this planet #greed #senselessness #MH17
Jul 17, 2014, 9:06 pm
#623
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
Jul 17, 2014, 9:14 pm
#624
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Havana, Cuba
Programs: AA EXP UA Gold QR Platinum Hilton Gold FB Sinbad
Posts: 125
I am in KL today and the sorrow felt is palpable. Heartfelt sympathies for the families of the passengers. I was told that some of them were Oz bound to attend a conference, others coming to celebrate Holidays at home (Ramadan).
It was not MH fault, nor Malaysia's; wrong time, wrong place. May their souls rest in peace.
It was not MH fault, nor Malaysia's; wrong time, wrong place. May their souls rest in peace.
Jul 17, 2014, 9:17 pm
#625
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,222
Some of the victims pics are appearing in the media. One young Dutch guy posted a pic of his boarding pass on Instagram. He would of been so happy and excited boarding his plane for this trip. Just makes you feel ill thinking about it.
Jul 17, 2014, 9:18 pm
#626
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,222
Jul 17, 2014, 9:28 pm
#627
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 74
well... with all due respect, I can't agree with that statement. while MH may have done nothing legally wrong, I think investigators need to look into why MH chose to fly over Ukraine in the first place.
some other European and Asian carriers have chosen to bypass Ukraine completely prior to today's crash.
Why did MH not take the better-safe-than-sorry attitude when planning flights?
I sincerely hope that cost associated with taking a more southerly route was the reason.
some other European and Asian carriers have chosen to bypass Ukraine completely prior to today's crash.
Why did MH not take the better-safe-than-sorry attitude when planning flights?
I sincerely hope that cost associated with taking a more southerly route was the reason.
Jul 17, 2014, 9:31 pm
#628
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: TX
Programs: UA 1K, 1.1MM
Posts: 300
Jul 17, 2014, 9:32 pm
#629
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 985
MH was hardly the only airline flying through that airspace at the time of the incident. This could've happened to any carrier.