Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
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If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 4:56 pm
#586
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
RECENT UPDATE: U.S. officials have no doubt on the fact that this was an attack and that it was a surface-to-air missile - it remains to be seen, however, who downed the plane.
(from our newsroom)
U.S. Officials: Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile
Crash Was ‘Terrorist Act’, ‘Not An Accident’
(from our newsroom)
U.S. Officials: Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile
Crash Was ‘Terrorist Act’, ‘Not An Accident’
The crash of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with 295 people on board is believed to have been caused by a missile fired deliberately at the plane.
U.S. intelligence agencies told sources it was a surface-to-air missile but did not indicate whether it was fired by pro-Russian separatist forces or Ukrainian forces...
<SNIP>
U.S. intelligence agencies told sources it was a surface-to-air missile but did not indicate whether it was fired by pro-Russian separatist forces or Ukrainian forces...
<SNIP>
Jul 17, 2014, 4:57 pm
#587
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 74
Another air disaster that kept popping into my mind is Tenerife because it was also filled with Dutch passengers.
Sad day....
Last edited by cblaisd; Jul 17, 2014 at 5:12 pm Reason: Removed conspiracy speculation
Jul 17, 2014, 4:57 pm
#588
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco
Programs: United, BA, FlyingBLue, AA
Posts: 99
Working on it? ? The CIA, National Security Council, and President must know the exact location where the missile was launched. The USA (and presumably also the Russians and other countries) have satellites that track all missile launches so that they know when ICBMs might be headed their way and can prepare for their part in the Armageddon. The big question is why aren't they telling us?
Jul 17, 2014, 5:03 pm
#589
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
Working on it? ? The CIA, National Security Council, and President must know the exact location where the missile was launched. The USA (and presumably also the Russians and other countries) have satellites that track all missile launches so that they know when ICBMs might be headed their way and can prepare for their part in the Armageddon. The big question is why aren't they telling us?
Jul 17, 2014, 5:04 pm
#590
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
Jul 17, 2014, 5:06 pm
#591
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal (ONT), PVD/BOS, JAX, RSW
Programs: AA/US PlatPro & 1.05MM, DL Plat (challenge), UA dirt
Posts: 3,189
I suppose that the radar system at Fylingdales could have possibly picked something up--if it was even focused on the Ukraine.
Last edited by fgirard; Jul 17, 2014 at 5:06 pm Reason: fixed spelling
Jul 17, 2014, 5:07 pm
#592
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
Jul 17, 2014, 5:12 pm
#593
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
A pretty good read, though obviously produced in a hurry, at The New Republic which says in part:
"Make no mistake: this is a really, really, really big deal. This is the first downing of a civilian jetliner in this conflict and, if it was the rebels who brought it down, all kinds of ugly things follow. For one thing, what seemed to be gelling into a frozen local conflict has now broken into a new phase, one that directly threatens European security. The plane, let's recall, was flying from Amsterdam."
Full story here:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...airlines-plane
"Make no mistake: this is a really, really, really big deal. This is the first downing of a civilian jetliner in this conflict and, if it was the rebels who brought it down, all kinds of ugly things follow. For one thing, what seemed to be gelling into a frozen local conflict has now broken into a new phase, one that directly threatens European security. The plane, let's recall, was flying from Amsterdam."
Full story here:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...airlines-plane
Jul 17, 2014, 5:16 pm
#594
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: LHR- ish
Programs: MUCCI, BA Blue
Posts: 4,295
Looking at the guy's FB he's been to the region before so maybe was making use of a pic he'd previously taken?
Jul 17, 2014, 5:21 pm
#595
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
That could be. It's been a couple of years from me but I don't think the bit of jetway in view is an AMS-style (portholey) jetway, either.
Jul 17, 2014, 5:25 pm
#596
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
Working on it? ? The CIA, National Security Council, and President must know the exact location where the missile was launched. The USA (and presumably also the Russians and other countries) have satellites that track all missile launches so that they know when ICBMs might be headed their way and can prepare for their part in the Armageddon. The big question is why aren't they telling us?
My feeling is that if they know who launched it, then what is happening are mechanisms discussing options (use the information as leverage to accomplish an end to this mess) and possibly acting on some of the options on the diplomacy front first.
Lastly if they know, it means that people are going to want to know how they know, and that means revealing capabilities and that is a strategic issue. So I'd be thinking there is a lot of talking going on right now about what to do about this.
Jul 17, 2014, 5:26 pm
#597
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SYD
Programs: SK,BA,QF,AA, HH, IGH
Posts: 276
Unless it is proven that this flight was specifically targeted, then it was just chance that it was this one and not one of the other nearby airliners that was hit (reports state that both AI & SQ had flights within 25km of the MH plane).
The flight originated in AMS, and was a KLM codeshare - so hardly surprising that there were a large number of dutch citizens aboard.
There are enough conspiracy theories out there without adding to them here - no matter the cause it should be remembered that 295 people have lost their lives and their families and friends are now dealing with this tragic news.
As a community of frequent flyers, I feel it is our responsibility to ensure that threads like this remain respectful & factual, after all with the number of flights/miles flown by members here it is not beyond the realms of possibility that one day one of us could be involved in something like this, and it could be our families & friends reading posts on FT in a search for information.
Jul 17, 2014, 5:33 pm
#598
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
I'd be betting if they say they can detect this stuff they have a handful of public ways and a handful of secret ways they can do it. Also that they've had this area under close watch for months probably helps their ability to read the situation.
Jul 17, 2014, 5:47 pm
#599
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: nada these days
Posts: 438
This is horrific. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the passengers and crew. I hope MH is able to get past this -- they are having a spectacularly unlucky year. This whole situation is just awful. And, of course, if it was the separatists and it can be proved, that throws a whole new wrench into the conflict -- Europe probably will not look the other way.