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Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)

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Old Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
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Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)

Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
  #481  
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Originally Posted by adamak
If the rebels are not letting investigators / police get to the debris field now, which country will have the authority to force their way in? US? Russia? Malaysia? At some point, they'll have to collect the bodies, debris for investigation, right?
I don't think anyone has the authority. This is Ukrainian territory though and they are making noise that they want it investigated internationally. So as the law goes the invitation will be there, and no forcing necessary.

The problem of men on the ground with guns then is not so much a legal issue about authority, it's a case of the reality of not being able to get close because someone is shooting at you. To send tanks and APCs into this region is getting involved in a shooting war with Russian proxies and that is a high ante. NATO tanks and APCs are just over the border in Poland. I don't think there is any will to bring them in even with an invitation as cover for investigations, and nobody is going to fight a battle over this scene.

Any battle will be an excuse for the currently occupying forces to destroy it and claim it was enemy action.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
  #482  
 
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Not sure if this was posted yet, but is the purported google cache of the tweet in which the pro-separatist leader took responsibility for shooting down the plane prior to realizing it was a civilian plane. The tweet was quickly deleted.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-57424472_7256
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:23 pm
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Sky reporting early estimate of 9 UK citizens aboard
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:24 pm
  #484  
 
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Lots of other airlines used that corridor. Only after this incident most of them announced on their websites (LH, BA and maybe others) that they will make a detour, otherwise it was perfectly safe. That area had no restrictions.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:24 pm
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Fox News now confirming that the plane was shot down according to US Government.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:25 pm
  #486  
 
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Crew manifest for MH 17

This is just so sad

http://www.tnp.sg/news/anxious-messa...facebook-pages
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:25 pm
  #487  
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Originally Posted by blahter
I always keep my passport on me when I'm traveling.
I am in great fear of losing my passport. After display it goes into a zippered pocket in my bag.

With the condition of the plane... hard to say how all those passports ended up loose.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:28 pm
  #488  
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Reporting as 143 Dutch, 27 Australians, 22 Malaysians, 12 Indonesians, 6 British, 4 Germans, 4 French, 3 Belgians, 1 Canadian. Another 58 are currently unconfirmed (though 23 are supposedly American).
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:31 pm
  #489  
 
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Originally Posted by tyberius
I am in great fear of losing my passport. After display it goes into a zippered pocket in my bag.

With the condition of the plane... hard to say how all those passports ended up loose.
when I travel, I also keep my passport book in a zippered pocket. I also keep my passport card in my wallet. on top of that, I have a laminated copy of my passport's personal data page and I keep it in my left shoe. there are also scanned copies of my passport on my phone, as well as on my Google Drive, so I can access it from any computer linked to the internet.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:35 pm
  #490  
 
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Originally Posted by tropicaliceberg
when I travel, I also keep my passport book in a zippered pocket. I also keep my passport card in my wallet. on top of that, I have a laminated copy of my passport's personal data page and I keep it in my left shoe. there are also scanned copies of my passport on my phone, as well as on my Google Drive, so I can access it from any computer linked to the internet.
There wouldn't be any issue identifying you!
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:38 pm
  #491  
 
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Originally Posted by tyberius
I am in great fear of losing my passport. After display it goes into a zippered pocket in my bag.

With the condition of the plane... hard to say how all those passports ended up loose.
Mine is always in pocket, regardless of if I'm on a plane...It's one of those things while on international travel I check by feel 'wallet, passport, phone'.

The videos of all the near-pristine condition passports found is interesting. Did they come off bodies? Did they leave seatback pockets? I can't imagine them flying out of rollerboards or backpacks...
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:44 pm
  #492  
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Originally Posted by Dan98
MH issued a short statement on their website http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/e...ent1-mh17.html

and this is the probable page for the passenger manifest http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
For me, the first link doesn't work while the second goes to the MH official statement that we saw earlier.

Surely MH isn't going to post the passenger manifest, at least not until all next of kin have been located and notified.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:44 pm
  #493  
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Originally Posted by UnderEst
Mine is always in pocket, regardless of if I'm on a plane...It's one of those things while on international travel I check by feel 'wallet, passport, phone'.

The videos of all the near-pristine condition passports found is interesting. Did they come off bodies? Did they leave seatback pockets? I can't imagine them flying out of rollerboards or backpacks...
I always keep my passport on me. One of my friends once witnessed a failed theft attempt aboard a trans-pac flight (thief tried to steal a laptop out of an overhead bin bag, but dropped it on the pax who was the owner...)

There's also FT stories of laptops disappearing, etc. These days.

That said, I'd guess that these passports were scavenged and collected/compiled. Is it that implausible? Not everyone is as "ick" about dead bodies...
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:48 pm
  #494  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Surely MH isn't going to post the passenger manifest, at least not until all next of kin have been located and notified.
How many of the next of kin won't know already
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:48 pm
  #495  
 
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CNN also reporting that a senior US official is reporting the plane was shot down.

IMO it makes more sense that Russia, or the pro-Russian forces in Ukraine, launched. The plane was about to enter Russia. Speculation that I've read points to Russia providing the missile.
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