Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 1:52 pm
#466
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Jul 17, 2014, 1:52 pm
#467
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I think chances are pretty high they have no idea what a blackbox looks like in the first place. (isn't it yellow, anyway?) - considering they have no concept of what constitutes a threat (a low-flying military plane) and what doesn't (a high-altitude flyover by a civilian aircraft). This is, assuming the rebels are responsible - which is speculation, at present.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:52 pm
#468
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Because they are Russians, sent there by Russia, armed and financed by Russia, perhaps? If it is indeed of their making (which almost everyone is sure of now over here) then they would want to cover any evidence there may be... Although I am not sure how legal it is... And whether an international body can sanction Russia for accepting black box recorders in such a situation. Russia has nothing to do with the investigation (apart from allegedly supplying the weapon that led to the tragedy).
Jul 17, 2014, 1:52 pm
#469
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But why so many airlines were sending their machines over the area of actual war???
How many fuelbucks did the airline companies saved on not changing their routes until today, when this tragedy happened???
The second, serious investigation should be started on why the airlines were putting so many people in danger letting own commercial planes fly over the area of regular war.
How many fuelbucks did the airline companies saved on not changing their routes until today, when this tragedy happened???
The second, serious investigation should be started on why the airlines were putting so many people in danger letting own commercial planes fly over the area of regular war.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:55 pm
#470
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I think chances are pretty high they have no idea what a blackbox looks like in the first place. (isn't it yellow, anyway?) - considering they have no concept of what constitutes a threat (a low-flying military plane) and what doesn't (a high-altitude flyover by a civilian aircraft). This is, assuming the rebels are responsible - which is speculation, at present.
They're made to be found and easily identified - it's rather important.
Last edited by CPRich; Jul 17, 2014 at 2:15 pm
Jul 17, 2014, 1:58 pm
#471
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Ukraine
Up to now there has been no closure of Ukrainian airspace. However, Lufthansa has decided to fly a wide detour around east Ukrainian airspace with immediate effect. The safety of our passengers is our top priority. A total of four flights are affected today. Presently, no restrictions apply to the Lufthansa destinations Kiev and Odessa.
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Trave...mation#ancAbT0
Ukraine
Up to now there has been no closure of Ukrainian airspace. However, Lufthansa has decided to fly a wide detour around east Ukrainian airspace with immediate effect. The safety of our passengers is our top priority. A total of four flights are affected today. Presently, no restrictions apply to the Lufthansa destinations Kiev and Odessa.
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Trave...mation#ancAbT0
Jul 17, 2014, 1:59 pm
#472
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I think chances are pretty high they have no idea what a blackbox looks like in the first place. (isn't it yellow, anyway?) - considering they have no concept of what constitutes a threat (a low-flying military plane) and what doesn't (a high-altitude flyover by a civilian aircraft). This is, assuming the rebels are responsible - which is speculation, at present.
Jul 17, 2014, 1:59 pm
#473
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I'm hoping that no matter what happens to the wreckage/personal effects/black boxes/evidence etc that the bodies will be treated respectfully and returned by the rebels/Ukrainians/Russians (someone up thread reported that Russian emergency services had requested permission from the Ukrainians to enter the area) in a timely and dignified manor.
They will, at the very least, be able to show if there was an external or internal explosion - assuming that it was an explosion and not some other catastrophic failure of the aircraft
Last edited by alanR; Jul 17, 2014 at 2:39 pm
Jul 17, 2014, 2:01 pm
#474
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AVHerald coverage is up.
http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0
(site was down earlier, probably due to load)
http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0
(site was down earlier, probably due to load)
Jul 17, 2014, 2:06 pm
#475
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The Buk system missiles are 16 feet long and travel at Mach 3.5, and as of 1980 can strike at 72,000 feet altitude. They were for protecting the USSR against NATO threats. They are serious mobile defensive systems.
Jul 17, 2014, 2:09 pm
#476
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MH issued a short statement on their website http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/e...ent1-mh17.html
and this is the probable page for the passenger manifest http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
and this is the probable page for the passenger manifest http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
Jul 17, 2014, 2:10 pm
#477
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Although not sure how informative any results will be - not as if they'll be able to identify who fired a missile (if it was one). Presumably time and location the main datapoints, once / if they rule out anything else? Maybe any ATC conversation...
Jul 17, 2014, 2:10 pm
#478
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Normally, the ICAO would be involved. There are norms and procedures in place, the same as were used to determine investigational authority and participants in the MH 370 incident.
Jul 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
#479
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I hope that they didn't collect passports off the bodies but have found them separately (do you carry your Passport on you while in flight? Mine is typically in my seatpocket, bag and/or overhead bin). [redacted] Watching those (terrible) pictures had me hope that someone could have survived, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.
My thoughts are with all those involved, the people on board as well as the families left behind.
My thoughts are with all those involved, the people on board as well as the families left behind.
Jul 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
#480
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BBC reporting that Seperatist leaders are offering a ceasefire to facilitate investigation. Wonder if that includes letting an independant body have the Flight Recorders?
Of course I suspect that the FR would only confirm that it was a shootdown rather than a crash but surely they would have other evidence of that anyway (satellite imagery has been suggested). I guess if that is proven it wouldthen boil down to which side had done it.
Of course I suspect that the FR would only confirm that it was a shootdown rather than a crash but surely they would have other evidence of that anyway (satellite imagery has been suggested). I guess if that is proven it wouldthen boil down to which side had done it.