Last edit by: JDiver
This is ARCHIVE WEEK #1 (8 - 14 March UTC) of older posts from the original thread, MH 370 KUL-PEK Missing: now Search and Recovery [PLEASE SEE WIKI].
THIS THREAD HAS BEEN LOCKED.
MH 370 KUL-PEK Missing: 8 - 14 Mar 2014 UTC - ARCHIVE WEEK #1
#2251
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A
Posts: 403
Satellite not tracking the commercial airline...
Somehow I thought that one of those satellite is actively monitoring any flight in the air. I guess not.
#2252
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Some time ago, I mentioned there were too many "silos" here, too many differing interests, even though the commonality here is SAR for MH370. When you look at trying to coordinate both civil and military authorities of nine nations, many with locally competing interests, EEZ and territorial claims, disputes going back centuries in some cases, military hierarchies and even interservice competition, don't expect command, control, communications and coordination will be very smooth.
...
The Malaysians have begun collecting information from neighbouring countries without any problems, including air-traffic control communications and radar data, he said. "There have been no issues in getting that information."
But Southeast Asian waters are rife with territorial disputes, and any decision by Malaysia to unilaterally open a formal investigation under UN rules could be seen as a subtle assertion of sovereignty if the crash site turns out to be inside another country's territory.
Without a formal investigative process being convened quickly under rules set out by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN agency, there is a risk that crucial early detective work could be hampered, and potential clues and records lost, air accident experts said.
Witnesses such as cargo handlers, mechanics and company officials might be reluctant to speak to Malaysian investigators who were operating outside a formal ICAO-sanctioned probe which could offer them some protection from law suits, experts said.
...
The Malaysians have begun collecting information from neighbouring countries without any problems, including air-traffic control communications and radar data, he said. "There have been no issues in getting that information."
But Southeast Asian waters are rife with territorial disputes, and any decision by Malaysia to unilaterally open a formal investigation under UN rules could be seen as a subtle assertion of sovereignty if the crash site turns out to be inside another country's territory.
Without a formal investigative process being convened quickly under rules set out by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a UN agency, there is a risk that crucial early detective work could be hampered, and potential clues and records lost, air accident experts said.
Witnesses such as cargo handlers, mechanics and company officials might be reluctant to speak to Malaysian investigators who were operating outside a formal ICAO-sanctioned probe which could offer them some protection from law suits, experts said.
...
#2253
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Official statement on the Berita Harian story (seems to mostly discount it):
Released by RMAF:
OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY CHIEF OF ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE ON
BERITA HARIAN NEWS ARTICLE DATED 11th MARCH 2014 ON SEARCH AND RESCUE OPERATIONS IN THE STRAITS OF MALACCA
1. I refer to the Berita Harian news article dated 11th March 2014 on Search and Rescue Operations in the Straits of Malacca which (in Bahasa Malaysia) referred to me as making the following statements:
The RMAF Chief confirmed that RMAF Butterworth airbase detected the location signal of the airliner as indicating that it turned back from its original heading to the direction of Kota Bahru, Kelantan, and was believed to have pass through the airspace of the East Coast of and Northern Peninsular Malaysia.
The last time the plane was detected by the air control tower was in the vicinity of Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca at 2.40 in the morning before the signal disappeared without any trace, he said.
2. I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above, what occurred was that the Berita Harian journalist asked me if such an incident occurred as detailed in their story, however I did not give any answer to the question, instead what I said to the journalist was “Please refer to the statement which I have already made on 9 March 2014, during the press conference with the Chief of Defence Force at the Sama-Sama Hotel, Kuala Lumpur International Airport”.
3. What I stated during that press conference was,
The RMAF has not ruled out the possibility of an air turn back on a reciprocal heading before the aircraft vanished from the radar and this resulted in the Search and Rescue Operations being widen to the vicinity of the waters of Pulau Pinang.
4. I request this misreporting be amended and corrected to prevent further misinterpretations of what is clearly an inaccurate and incorrect report.
5. Currently the RMAF is examining and analyzing all possibilities as regards to the airliner’s flight paths subsequent to its disappearance. However for the time being, it would not be appropriate for the RMAF to issue any official conclusions as to the aircraft’s flight path until a high amount of certainty and verification is achieved. However all ongoing search operations are at the moment being conducted to cover all possible areas where the aircraft could have gone down in order to ensure no possibility is overlooked.
6. In addition, I would like to state to the media that all information and developments will be released via official statements and press conferences as soon as possible and when appropriate. Our current efforts are focused upon on finding the aircraft as soon as possible.
Thank You
GENERAL TAN SRI DATO’SRI RODZALI BIN DAUD RMAF
Chief of Royal Malaysian Air Force
Released On:
11 March 14
Kuala Lumpur
OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY CHIEF OF ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE ON
BERITA HARIAN NEWS ARTICLE DATED 11th MARCH 2014 ON SEARCH AND RESCUE OPERATIONS IN THE STRAITS OF MALACCA
1. I refer to the Berita Harian news article dated 11th March 2014 on Search and Rescue Operations in the Straits of Malacca which (in Bahasa Malaysia) referred to me as making the following statements:
The RMAF Chief confirmed that RMAF Butterworth airbase detected the location signal of the airliner as indicating that it turned back from its original heading to the direction of Kota Bahru, Kelantan, and was believed to have pass through the airspace of the East Coast of and Northern Peninsular Malaysia.
The last time the plane was detected by the air control tower was in the vicinity of Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca at 2.40 in the morning before the signal disappeared without any trace, he said.
2. I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above, what occurred was that the Berita Harian journalist asked me if such an incident occurred as detailed in their story, however I did not give any answer to the question, instead what I said to the journalist was “Please refer to the statement which I have already made on 9 March 2014, during the press conference with the Chief of Defence Force at the Sama-Sama Hotel, Kuala Lumpur International Airport”.
3. What I stated during that press conference was,
The RMAF has not ruled out the possibility of an air turn back on a reciprocal heading before the aircraft vanished from the radar and this resulted in the Search and Rescue Operations being widen to the vicinity of the waters of Pulau Pinang.
4. I request this misreporting be amended and corrected to prevent further misinterpretations of what is clearly an inaccurate and incorrect report.
5. Currently the RMAF is examining and analyzing all possibilities as regards to the airliner’s flight paths subsequent to its disappearance. However for the time being, it would not be appropriate for the RMAF to issue any official conclusions as to the aircraft’s flight path until a high amount of certainty and verification is achieved. However all ongoing search operations are at the moment being conducted to cover all possible areas where the aircraft could have gone down in order to ensure no possibility is overlooked.
6. In addition, I would like to state to the media that all information and developments will be released via official statements and press conferences as soon as possible and when appropriate. Our current efforts are focused upon on finding the aircraft as soon as possible.
Thank You
GENERAL TAN SRI DATO’SRI RODZALI BIN DAUD RMAF
Chief of Royal Malaysian Air Force
Released On:
11 March 14
Kuala Lumpur
#2254
Join Date: May 2003
Location: CA
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 2,879
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...&stream_ref=10
The RMAF has officially denied the tracking reported by various news agencies.
The RMAF has officially denied the tracking reported by various news agencies.
#2255
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Springfield, VA
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, AA EXP, Alaska MVP 75
Posts: 436
Watching CNN now and they are all over this....which seems to be inaccurate info or at least not confirmed....
#2256
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Plat Pro
Posts: 63
Thanks, andrewwm. That's quite interesting, and I suspect in the end the whole "turned west and flew up the Straits of Malacca" will be discarded, including the story that residents around Kota Bharu saw the aircraft. Just a hunch I have, not based on current information or knowledge I have.
We'll leave it in the wiki as "disputed" for now, and add the RAF Chief has refuted he said that; it's interesting that BBC et all still hew to the story. Maybe we're faster than they are on the uptake, but we also have to be careful before completely verifying or discarding information that is out there. This also demonstrates the difficulty of securing decent and verifiable information at these times.
We'll leave it in the wiki as "disputed" for now, and add the RAF Chief has refuted he said that; it's interesting that BBC et all still hew to the story. Maybe we're faster than they are on the uptake, but we also have to be careful before completely verifying or discarding information that is out there. This also demonstrates the difficulty of securing decent and verifiable information at these times.
#2257
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
Am I reading this right?
#2258
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ, UA, Delta, BMI(RIP), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Diamond (Thanks Amex) Hyatt Discov
Posts: 1,942
New Scientist reports that Rolls Royce in Derby did receive two burst of ACRS data, one after take off, and one during the climb
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.Ux9LzfmSzZE
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.Ux9LzfmSzZE
#2259
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 147
Meanwhile, back in the boring old Gulf of Thailand: Any news yet about the alarming loud noises reported near Pulau Kapas that night? There is reporting that multiple villagers reported it to the Malang police.
Last edited by Milestone; Mar 11, 2014 at 11:54 am Reason: Spelling
#2260
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Thanks, andrewwm. That's quite interesting, and I suspect in the end the whole "turned west and flew up the Straits of Malacca" will be discarded, including the story that residents around Kota Bharu saw the aircraft. Just a hunch I have, not based on current information or knowledge I have.
Malaysia radar records some kind of unidentified object on a primary radar (for however short a time) either turning back to KL near the accident site or something near RMAF Butterworth (Penang/west coast).
Given that we know the transponder was off, there is no way for the radar operator to confirm if it is the flight or not or some type of clutter or other object.
So without confirmation that any radar contact they had suggesting the plane went westward, they continue with searching both the last known location and areas near where the radar track of the UFO suggested.
#2261
Formerly known as jsfrSuperElite
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong, Montreal
Programs: Air Canada SE100K-1MM, Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 590
This is certainly an interesting twist. IIRC, the one hour discrepancy early on in the story from when the plane reportedly left radar and when it left tracking sites such as FR24 was dismissed as to differences in time zones. Now the possibility exists that the plane did leave radar at the time first reported, but somewhere not anywhere near where we thought it would be two hours out from KUL. It simply flew the extra hour without the transponder on after it began making its turn.
Am I reading this right?
Am I reading this right?
All hypothesis for the time being. But the new possible location in the Strait of Malacca seems to be a pretty serious lead for the time being. It would perhaps explain why the plane has not been found out yet in the initial search zone after 4 days...
#2262
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605
Two people trying to get to the West as illegal immigrants, using false passports and paying cash - what's so implausible about that?
#2263
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
Just for completeness, CNN is disclosing that their info is coming from an official whom they cannot name, since he isn't authorized to speak with the media about this story.
#2264
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Programs: Former 1K turned UA Kettle
Posts: 413
Haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but here:
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014?source=abc
is a website that allows people to look at high res satellite images and tag potential areas of interest. They're trying to "crowdsource" the SAR.
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/...014?source=abc
is a website that allows people to look at high res satellite images and tag potential areas of interest. They're trying to "crowdsource" the SAR.
#2265
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NY
Programs: AA Plat Pro, KrisFlyer Elite Gold
Posts: 578
As evidenced by the posts in this thread, there have been multiple contradictory statements issued by the airline and Malaysian government which evinces a shoddy handling of the incident. My major issue is why the military failed to release data which suggests they were aware the plane had altered course. It would have saved alot of heretofore wasted effort.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/wo...ia-jet.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/wo...ia-jet.html?hp