FederalFlyer

Any experiences with a luxury ryokan in Kyoto or nearby? I will be spending a total of 3-4 nights in Kyoto. I am looking for something that offers an authentic and unique cultural experience and a ryokan seems to fit the bill. However, based on a variety of ryokan reviews, I'm a bit concerned about feeling "tied to" the Ryokan. For example, meals seem to be included in the stay. But I would probably prefer to eat most meals out and about while exploring Kyoto and the surrounding area. So, I'm thinking of either just one or two nights at a ryokan and the remaining night(s) elsewhere. Is this sufficient to enjoy what a ryokan offers?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

RichardInSF

The standard luxury ryokan recommended for foreigners in Kyoto are Hiiragiya and Tarawaya. I have never stayed in either. It is worthwhile to stay in a ryokan but for me, one night is enough. Certainly no more than two. At least one of those offers the ability to book a room without dinner, I believe.

Kyoto is very possibly the most expensive place in Japan to experience a ryokan, but if that is all your itinerary permits, you might go for it. If you have more time consider adding a night in Hakone to stay at the ryokan discussed in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...ferrerid=14479

OliverB

I booked 3-4 nights at Hiiragiya and you don't need to accept all meals; in fact the price is reduced significantly if you opt out, as we did for the same reasons as you. For the most authentic and historically rich cultural experience, the two contenders in Kyoto seem to be Hiiragiya and Tawaraya. I hear the overall service at the former is rated slightly higher. Be warned that certain rooms however are reserved for board members and will not be released to just anyone. We lucked out as we had some intervention by people of influence and were able to book one of the highly sought after luxury corner rooms, albeit not without a bit of resistance from the property. I'll be sure to post a detailed report on return in December!

OliverB

Price not withstanding, I don't understand this. We've booked multiple nights at ryokan in various cities, including three consecutive in Kyoto. We're staying at the Hyatt Regency for 2 nights prior for a break between ryokan, but cost aside at roughly $1,300/night (there are less expensive accommodations at both properties), I would have gladly booked our full stay there otherwise.

RichardInSF

Curious, you don't know how many nights you booked? After the first night on a futon, I really do start to long for a real western bed. I'd never make it through 3-4 nights.

OliverB

I just double checked and we're doing 2 nights at the Hyatt Regency (Regency Exec King Suite) and then 3 nights at Hiiragiya for a total of 5 nights in Kyoto. We're staying in ryokan before and after throughout our trip as well, so I wanted to have a break inbetween and also to experience the Hyatt which looks superb. I can understand the hesitation about spending multiple nights on a futon but I've actually read that they're quite comfortable and it's part of the overall experience for me. Our room is incredibly spacious and open with traditional antique furnishings and magnificent views out to the gardens. It's a model of Japanese aesthetic:



I believe there are Western rooms with regular beds that you can book, though once you're going that route, a hotel probably makes more sense. I doubt the level of service can be matched anywhere though, at least from what I've read. That's also part of the ryokan experience. Admittedly, we're sort of using the Hiiragiya as a very expensive and indulgent 'crash pad' for several nights while touring Kyoto. We're only dining in on the night of our arrival, though I look forward to breakfasts and tea in the early morning sunlight overlooking the gardens.

RichardInSF

The suite at the HR, if it's the same as the suite I've always had there, has a western bedroom and a Japanese tatami mat dining/living room, and is rather a nice compromise between western and Japanese. It's fun eating in the dining room from room service especially since, to add to the cultural confusion, it's possible to order foods from the hotel's Italian restaurant!

HKTraveler

If ryokan, can also look into Yoshinoya and Shiraume. Yoshinoya is a bit far from town but can be a tranquil stay for a night or two. Siraume is right in the middle of the old district and walking distance to everything.

For a more modern option, Hyatt Regency or the new Ritz are your best bets.

blueline7

I stayed at Hiiragiya for one night in the expectation that it would offer a "unique cultural experience". I am afraid that although a very pleasant stay, my expectations were far too ambitious. You can read my report here if you have not done so already: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...ncy-kyoto.html

In particular, you may want to note my observation from my report, that "I would however not ever consider staying at a Ryokan again, as it was really somewhat underwhelming due to my extraordinary high expectations of a virtual time machine back to the Edo era".

To me, at the end of the day, the experience consisted of a very isolating time in spartan accommodations at a very high price. That being said, I understand the attraction of wanting to "experience" it, and that is precisely why I stayed there. Mission accomplished.

OliverB

Sorry to hear that but it sounds like you still had a very enjoyable stay and appreciated all the elements. Value is of course entirely subjective and while I'd agree that the purpose of any ryokan is to serve as a contemplative retreat and refuge from the surrounding city and might not be an ideal choice if not spending a great amount of time within it's walls, I still appreciate the uniqueness of the experience; the aesthetic, history, etc. Out of curiosity, were you in one of the two deluxe corner rooms on the ground floor overlooking the gardens? I think like anywhere else, your choice of room type plays a big role in the overall experience. I personally love traditional Kaiseki and we're probably going to overdo it in Kyoto with all of our reservations, but the entire city is as much about atmosphere and setting than anything else, and that's most important to me - be it where we dine, sleep, etc. I'm greatly looking forward to our stay at Hiiragiya!

OliverB

Yes that's the same one and it looks fabulous! It's part of the reason we decided to divide our stay in Kyoto.

FederalFlyer

Thanks for all the information.

I am leaning towards booking a single night at Hiiragiya with Kaiseki dinner. The plan is to arrive from Tokyo late afternoon around check-in time and take in the full experience Hiiragiya offers, moving to the Hyatt the following morning after breakfast. Based on all the great responses here, I believe a second night at Hiiragiya (even without meal) would be unnecessary for our personal travel style.

Now, I'm left debating whether to spend all of the remaining 3 nights at the Hyatt in Kyoto, or just 2 nights and head to Osaka for the last?

RichardInSF

Stay in Kyoto. If you must go to Osaka, it's a cheap 30 minute train ride with very frequent service.

grumbler

I agree. Stay in Kyoto for sure.

My only comment about the single night is that you have to be aware of the check in and check out times - so if you are only there for that time, you have to really focus on maximizing your time in the ryokan, especially if you are doing full board. I think it is why a lot of people will book two nights, but not much more.

I personally think that the time I have spent at Tawaraya was at the highest level of hospitality I have ever experienced - but it is a distinct experience from a conventional hotel.

FederalFlyer

That is a good point and one that I've been considering. Actually it is why I currently think that one night will be sufficient; but maybe you can help clarify. At Hiiragiya, check in is at 3 pm, dinner starts between 6:00-7:30, and check out the following morning is at 11:00. Beyond a relaxing soak upon arrival, a lovely multi-course dinner, and then the night in a historically and culturally unique setting, I'm having difficulty understanding what else a ryokan offers to justify even a second night. I might be wired a bit like blueline7!