scented

Not much 'love' at MO Munich. They seem unable to provide a rewarding lunch on recent visits.

Many people speak highly of the new F&B concept at the hotel, including Matsuhisa. Quality produce and products no question, although a bit too much branding and pretense for my taste.

Lunch is served at Bar31, as they keep Matsuhisa's dining room upstairs for dinner service. While this should pose no problem, service and delivery are a problem.

Many small details missing at MO... chances are you are starved when the food finally arrives (yet missing the rice), as they do not serve bread, nor an amuse bouche, or just about anything (you could nibble on the non-existent flowers perhaps?), service is painfully slow, questions regarding the menu are answered after several calls to the kitchen (or with the GM, F&B Director and the pope in conference call, considering how long it took) and espressos are served 'naked' -- without cookie or chocolate. What they are doing however is to charge more than the menu indicates, which is fun to sort out.

I'd rather spend my lunch at Kuffler, which is only two blocks away and equally dead , though staff is kind and caring, they are able to customize according to allergies and dietary needs and do not overbill me. Meanwhile at MO my request to suggest something or switch one of the ingredients of the dish to something I am not allergic to resulted in not much, other than the comment to see the menu again or have something vegetarian. Very personal.

What I like is the intimacy of the hotel, quite refreshing. The ceilings are still as low as they can be for a luxury hotel, but not much they can do about it.

The hotel is expanding, yes yes yes -- turning the parking structure across the street into 'Residences' and more rooms and facilities, though I would hope that they consider the service aspect as well.

Surprisingly a manager did come after I asked and tried to make it right... no longer was I surprised when I learned he had worked under Didier le Calvez at the Bristol. Possibly the only person on property with an understanding of hospitality. Although I wonder why the Front Office Manager has to fix F&B problems. Where's the restaurant manager?

Currently I feel the hotel is very 'German' -- the GM has worked at many storied German and Austrian hotels, this should explain a lot of things.

submonte

I am in Munich some times per month, mainly for business reasons, and as I live only 1h by car south of Munich, I go also with my wife to Munich weekends often, and since longer we prefer to go to the MO for lunch or dinner (or eat in the time inbetween) when we have not reserved a table elsewhere due to my sometimes shaky business schedule.

Beside the hotel guests many Munich people are frequently staying at the F&B facilities. Some you know from business world, some from TV, and so on. The MO is a fine place to meet, eat, have a drink and relax.

Matsuhisa is dinner only, that is right. To be booked minimum one week ahead, for weekends even longer before. I had never an issue there, I do not know other Nobu restaurants, but I can´t say it was not excellent - food and service.

China Moon Roof Terrace (winter time closed) is frequented by also many good younger guests, we were offered a beach chair in the back when we appeared this summer without reservation, and ate on the small outfoldable chair tables and were happy with service and food and view and place.

Regulary we appear in Bar31 (6 pm open) and eat at the bar. They get the food from Matsuhisa kitchen, but a selection only, Sushis etc. What is not on the menu you get if you ask nice and friendly, at least they try, I remember we had luck two times. It is nice to sit at that broad round granite bar, eat and drink, watch the barkeeper in the back preparing cocktails, and the evening atmosphere, and the view outside to the street. The service depends on the staff which is sometimes a little bit to nervous (the younger ones), but it is nothing what could prevent me from going there again.

Most time we stay at the "The Lounge", left side from front desk, opposite the staircase to 1st floor/Matsuhisa. Nice informal ambience with internal and external guests. They have a different kitchen to BAR31-Matsuhisa, it is the general hotel kitchen, but very Asian/Thai style (plus some typical obligatoric hotel meals like Wiener Schnitzel or Club Sandwiches as far as I remember), so here we have another choice of cuisine.

The service in "The Lounge" has recently taken a visible turn for the worse, during the last visits in November/December 16. It took longer till we got our meals, or my wife got it and I waited another 25 mins, or someone offered us dessert and the main course was not even there. Champagne glasses - fill up ordered - forgotten. Bottle of water - forgotten. Another time one waitress after the other came and asked what she/he can do for us, and finally for 20mins no one appeared. Guests complained they could not get afternoon tea as something was missing in the kitchen. I believe the problem was not originating from the service team but from the kitchen, but this influenced the quality of the service team as they got in difficulties. The explanations given went also into that direction. The service staff is extraordinarily nice and visibly making efforts to satisfy the guests.

If amuse bouche should be and in what case I am not able to say, I did not miss it, but did not order a full menu, just a la carte single meals. Bread: Depends on what you order. We ordered Asian food, I did not miss it, got no bread in Thailand, Malaysia or China either. For Italian or Bavarian food bread might be appropriate.

If the reason for eventually deteriorating quality is the German manager I cannot see either, or that he served at German and Austrian hotels. His vita includes Kempinski Munich where he learned, Hamburg, New York, Bermuda (Elbow Beach Resort, today a MO), Miami (Turnberry Isle, that time a MO). Back in Europe he went to Schlosshotel Bühlerhöhe and then Hotel Fürstenhof Leipzig as GM. Whereas the reputation of the last two I would also not rate too high, his last stop at Schloss Fuschl Resort & Spa in Salzburg would be convincing in my eyes for his vita. I know the hotel and rate it as luxury class. But as a GM cannot manage a hotel alone and depends on good managers the guy from Paris can for sure be of help.

Also I would like to mention that the MO Munich is relatively small with 48 rooms and 25 suites. The F&B concept has to be different probably compared to New York or Bangkok.

So finally: I do not know if you are still in Munich and looking for lunch options. Here my ideas for you for this or next time.

Kuffler: Not the best reputation among Munich business people. Seems also empty recently, I avoid that place meanwhile. Better go some steps further down to

Brenners: Maximillianstrasse 15 (left side), entrance between those designershops. Here is life! First part is cafe, second is pasta, third is full menu, need reservation eventually.

Käfer Bistro: Open during gourmet shop opening times. Go by taxi 5 mins from MO. Nice Bistro in the shop, high quality light food, business people, in-crowd, rich and beautys from Munich here. Ambience and food French style. Service best Bavarian (Käfer is the gourmet king of Munich). Evening time: restaurant first floor, reservation required, more conservative ambience.

Hugo´s: Pizzeria/Italian restaurant/Club lounge, opposite Hotel Bayerischer Hof. "In-location", in-crowd, FC Bayern comes here, many locals, a place to be seen and to see. Crowded by young people, many girls, guests from Bayerischer Hof, shopping ladies, business people, football stars, TV people, etc. 10 mins by foot from MO.

Enjoy Munich. For more tips please ask.

scented

I love boutique hotels, so no problem here. Thanks for your input!

Mind you I never said that quality is deteriorating or that he is a bad GM. Just noted that previous stints -- Bühlerhöhe, Leipzig and Salzburg are obviously different machines compared to a MO, certainly with different clientele and expectations.

I witnessed on several occasions that staff had troubles keeping up with the language preferences of their clientele. It should not happen that if there is one German speaker at a table, that the entire party is addressed in German only, and through that one person. Especially if that person continues conversation in English, as a courtesy to other people. While these situations might be a rare occasion at 'Fürstenhof Leipzig', the guests at MO Munich, who are both diverse and International, have come to expect a certain standard. At least in these instances it came off as very rude. That's hospitality 101. MO Munich is not a bad hotel by anyone's standards, in fact still Munich's finest, though they do have their troubles with service delivery. And NY, Miami, Austria and the Caribbean will not exactly go down in history as the places to visit to enjoy great service, no?

PS: I, too, enjoy Brenners. Especially the grill section. Quite fun and hugely popular!

submonte

Well, yes, I see what you mean, and agree.

Thought about what you say and first supposed some "Lokalkolorit" could play a role (couleur locale - Munich is proud of its own identity, which is not necessarily "German" but "Bavarian" - "Mir san mir = We are we " - also in the sense of "we make our own rules"). I would not exclude an influence by that, plus moreover a disrespect of communication rules which are valid in international hotels / missing "instinctive feeling" how to handle such a situation (I know such situations, English obligatory by restaurant staff with the business guests from abroad, an answer in German to the German host if he wants to clarify something).

Talked to a team member at Park Hyatt Vienna last autumn, where I had dinner at their "The Bank Brasserie". Obviously she was not Viennese, talked High German with a minimal coloration (only a native speaker would notice it) from North-Rhine Westfalia where I also originate from, and we got into a conversation. She explained that the team majorly has been coming since opening from Hyatt Regency Düsseldorf and other Hyatts in Germany to ensure the guest relation rules and hotel service will be 100% up to international Hyatt brand standards (and not diluted by local behaviour which could also be in Vienna). That dinner was absolutely fantastic by the way, and the service as well, also to the many English speaking guests. By the way the GM of PH Vienna is a Dutch who had positions in US luxury hotels for 10 years, and in Asia also, Mrs. Monique Dekker, former GM of Hyatt Regency Düsseldorf. Interesting interview here: http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4076362.html

Will report about my next visits to MO Munich restaurants and keep my eyes and ears open

Kagehitokiri

bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2000/05/22/story6.html

= MO munich and MO geneva
(plus Breidenbacher Hof Dusseldorf and Ananda Himalayas)

many 'fans' of Georg Rafael here (alongside Zecha and Burns)
interesting old article "Three Hotels in Munich"
travelandleisure.com/articles/german-engineering

edit >
de.linkedin.com/in/wolfgang-greiner-45b439a3
Turnberry Isle Resort & Club, Aventura, FL, USA Mai 1999 – Dezember 2001 Executive Assistant Manager
Hotel Schloss Fuschl, Hof bei Salzburg, Austria 1999 – 1999 Executive Assistant Manager
Rafael Hotels Ltd. Schlosshotel Bühlerhöhe 1998 – 1998
Elbow Beach Resort, Bermuda 1996 – 1997 Executive Manager
The Mark Hotel New York 1995 – 1996 Assistant Manager

then went on to DE/AT starwood for 10 years, IIRC franchises

submonte

I have to rethink my opinion on that restaurant. As I recommended The Bank to two business friends and they reported a very unsatisfying experience at dinner during their recent hotel stay I will write a letter to the GM.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27835122-post302.html

scented: An international vs. a "more German" vita of a GM is not a guarantee that things are running smoother.



All interesting!

submonte

We had supper at Bar31 yesterday evening. Had no reservation, went in and took seat at the bar.

Bar31 was well attended by hotel guests and locals. Club music playing.

Sushi menu, nachos, some cocktails (try the one with Lychee - "Litschi"), Mandarin cheese cake. All excellent quality.

Best sushi in town. Fast delivery from Matsuhisa kitchen. Attentive, friendly, quick service team - cool smart young women and men - had all under control ^

Best location in town to have a relaxing evening with casual small dinner or sushi for couples, with friends or alone. And a must for MO hotel guests!

By the way the bar is out of marble, not granite, I was wrong

http://www.mandarinoriental.de/munic...-dining/bar31/

Looking forward to be again here soon. Next Saturday we try Tim Raue´s Brasserie Colette with friends.

ctbarron

Just seeing if anyone has any updates on the main hotels noted in the thread. We'll be in Munich as part of a family/friends trip in early July. We're focused more on the hotel, service, amenities, location, and less on the food aspect.

A couple of observations:

The price premium on the MO is 50-80%. From reading it does not seem like the hotel is that much better than the rest.

I know a couple of people who've stayed at the Kempinski. Both described it as "old world formal." One loved it, one did not. I generally do not favor this type of hotel, if the description fits.

I'm a bit biased against Sofitels. The few I've visited have all been a click off, often tired and lifeless.

Any updates or thoughts appreciated.

BENLEE

I stayed at the Charles Hotel last time. Quite nice. Very good concierge. Fantastic Breakfast. Rates are reasonable and location is good. You might want to give it a try.

RichardInSF

The Charles continues to be my choice as well. With advance bargaining through Virtuoso, a one-level upgrade at time of booking has been obtained. Admittedly, those visits were not during a busy time.

offerendum

A colleague stayed at Vier Jahreszeiten recently. He found his renovated room OK (far from great) but had a big discussion about honoring Virtuoso-amenities. Was his first and last time at this hotel. I warned him

scented

I would probably opt for The Charles as well... Kempinski is not my cup of tea and they have cut too many corners with the renovations. MO is still solid (despite my criticism), but is it worth the price they command? Certainly not.

BENLEE

I have booked MO Munich for June but just one night to catch up some sleep after a long flight. Should I changed then? One problem I had with Charles, their beds are not true King Size bed. And I was told they are all like their. Their meaning of King Size is two single bed mattress put together.

bearbrick

If it's just to catch up with sleep and only for a night why not just opt for Aloft Munich instead ? - directly across one of the " main " entrances of the HauptBF Munich.
Airport to HBF across the zebra crossing and you're at the front entrance !


The food within the station is good and with variety.
The hotel is new enough and service is what you'll need .

Just a thought .

submonte

This Sofitel is not tired and its brasserie and bar is popular among locals also.

Personally I do not like the location at main station.

Best location: Bayerischer Hof (probably "special" for you, somehow dated with local style, most popular bar in town ("blue bar"), luxurious, still no. 1 luxury hotel in Munich as most German people would think - not too busy located, but some steps only to - Marienplatz (continue to Sendlingerstrasse - nice shops), Dallmayr, Oper/Residenz and Maximilianstrasse, Kaufingerstrasse (most shops), Theatinerstrasse (better shops), Residenzstrasse-Odeonsplatz-Briennerstrasse.

Vier Jahreszeiten, Mandarin Oriental: The "other" best location. Directly at or close to most expensive shopping street Maximilianstrasse and also close to Marienplatz etc. Vier Jahreszeiten is always full of life, as the central lobby in classical Grand Hotel style (=reception, lounge and cafe plus bar entry) is frequented by guests and locals all day. About MO I have written before here. A fine hotel with good dining options, more Asian kitchen.

The Charles probably you would you like best as hotel (rooms etc.). Location is not too close to main station (but close enough if you like to go there) and 10 mins. walk to Stachus/Karlsplatz where the pedestrian area Kaufingerstrasse begins or Promenadeplatz (to Bayerischer Hof).