Serious question: What makes a "luxury" hotel?
Aug 5, 2010, 8:48 pm
#76
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NJ
Programs: UA LTG, AA LTG, Bonvoy LTP, IHG Plat, LHW Sterling
Posts: 2,404
I'm convinced that many hotels overlook the amplification effect that is inadvertently derived from the entryway design whereby the entryway serves as an amplifier for sounds outside in the hallway.
A second door by the bedroom would resolve that easily, as would better design of the door and entryway.
Anyone else notice this phenomenon?
A second door by the bedroom would resolve that easily, as would better design of the door and entryway.
Anyone else notice this phenomenon?
Last edited by schriste; Aug 5, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Sep 5, 2010, 6:20 pm
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
may be of interest to some >
http://www.relaischateaux.com/spip.p...id_article=176 >
http://www.relaischateaux.com/IMG/pd...ns_09_-_GB.pdf
http://corp.lhw.com/default.aspx?page=64 >
http://www.leadingquality.com/services.aspx >
http://www.leadingquality.com/pdf_s/...on_section.pdf
http://www.leadingquality.com/services_training.aspx
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13930384-post15.html
related to post #73 above >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...r-company.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...ml#post7025372
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...a-website.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-mistake.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-fs-sites.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-reality.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...displayed.html
(fixed last time i checked IIRC)
cant find the recent website threads... odd...
other >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-decision.html
very interesting >
http://magazine.fourseasons.com/arti...e-art_details/
recent recap of some related new/old - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17212433-post42.html
http://www.relaischateaux.com/spip.p...id_article=176 >
http://www.relaischateaux.com/IMG/pd...ns_09_-_GB.pdf
http://corp.lhw.com/default.aspx?page=64 >
http://www.leadingquality.com/services.aspx >
http://www.leadingquality.com/pdf_s/...on_section.pdf
http://www.leadingquality.com/services_training.aspx
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13930384-post15.html
related to post #73 above >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...r-company.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...ml#post7025372
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...a-website.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-mistake.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-fs-sites.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...s-reality.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...displayed.html
cant find the recent website threads... odd...
other >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-decision.html
very interesting >
http://magazine.fourseasons.com/arti...e-art_details/
a full-scale model of the guest room is always built in advance, sometimes in a neighbouring office building or warehouse. It’s a completely accurate replica, including fully functioning ventilation systems, running water and the exact window frames and glass.
The first purpose of the model is to serve as an “architectural standards control room.” This is where the soundproofing in the walls can be tested. The water drainage in the shower can be sped up. Every detail can be examined and adjusted as many times as necessary to achieve Four Seasons standards.
The second purpose is aesthetic, in order to gauge how the design concept comes to life in three dimensions—to see how the colours and fabrics work together, if the furniture feels too crowded or too sparse, and if lighting levels are appropriate given the location’s natural light. Other practical concerns include whether chair arms fit under tables, and if the TV can be seen throughout the guest room.
A third benefit is that the model room may be used for pre-opening site visits or photo shoots. (In fact, the photos accompanying this story were taken in London’s model guest room!)
The first purpose of the model is to serve as an “architectural standards control room.” This is where the soundproofing in the walls can be tested. The water drainage in the shower can be sped up. Every detail can be examined and adjusted as many times as necessary to achieve Four Seasons standards.
The second purpose is aesthetic, in order to gauge how the design concept comes to life in three dimensions—to see how the colours and fabrics work together, if the furniture feels too crowded or too sparse, and if lighting levels are appropriate given the location’s natural light. Other practical concerns include whether chair arms fit under tables, and if the TV can be seen throughout the guest room.
A third benefit is that the model room may be used for pre-opening site visits or photo shoots. (In fact, the photos accompanying this story were taken in London’s model guest room!)
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Oct 11, 2011 at 11:22 am
Apr 7, 2012, 1:16 pm
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
adding to my previous post >
***
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-trancoso.html >
obviously this is just ridiculous, but >
>
might involve other factors >
thrown off (or moody) when guest does not follow "guest procedure" and not answering questions or listening to guest when it falls outside of procedure
spoon - assuming procedure of other staff is perfect
procedure of doing things regardless of what guest wants, best way i can describe is to compare to the discussion here of taking bag out of your hand without asking
and seriously, dont do dumb arguments with guests. you would think that would be an easy procedure. maybe its even there, but it could easily be overwhelmed by other procedures. in reality, its pretty simple, taking the spoon example
- could not be easier to verify - look at the table
- guest is right - provide spoon (luxury might incl apology, recovery, etc)
- guest is wrong - identify the spoon to the guest
>
training that is not reality based, where the emphasis is on procedure
i believe i had a great look at this (in hospitality industry) on silversea, which also has an issue with putting on an air of formality, or at least what their travelers consider that to be, without actually being formal, and not even trying to maintain the appearance continuously.
ironically, i considered seabourn casual, and silversea wasnt much more formal. i dont recall seabourn having any real problems, let alone due to a focus on procedure. (or at least that was what silversea staff were taking away from training.) while seabourn was not luxury, silversea had some major service failures, as well as F&B issues which will keep me off ships larger than original seabourn in the future, other than ms europa and residensea.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...-trancoso.html >
obviously this is just ridiculous, but >
immediately told none was available in a way that conveyed that it was entirely inappropriate that we had even asked
we know better than you
waiter became moody when we asked to see the menu instead of ordering immediately
I asked for a tea spoon, response 'it's on the table', um, not it isn't
we know better than you
waiter became moody when we asked to see the menu instead of ordering immediately
I asked for a tea spoon, response 'it's on the table', um, not it isn't
thrown off (or moody) when guest does not follow "guest procedure" and not answering questions or listening to guest when it falls outside of procedure
spoon - assuming procedure of other staff is perfect
procedure of doing things regardless of what guest wants, best way i can describe is to compare to the discussion here of taking bag out of your hand without asking
and seriously, dont do dumb arguments with guests. you would think that would be an easy procedure. maybe its even there, but it could easily be overwhelmed by other procedures. in reality, its pretty simple, taking the spoon example
- could not be easier to verify - look at the table
- guest is right - provide spoon (luxury might incl apology, recovery, etc)
- guest is wrong - identify the spoon to the guest
>
training that is not reality based, where the emphasis is on procedure
i believe i had a great look at this (in hospitality industry) on silversea, which also has an issue with putting on an air of formality, or at least what their travelers consider that to be, without actually being formal, and not even trying to maintain the appearance continuously.
ironically, i considered seabourn casual, and silversea wasnt much more formal. i dont recall seabourn having any real problems, let alone due to a focus on procedure. (or at least that was what silversea staff were taking away from training.) while seabourn was not luxury, silversea had some major service failures, as well as F&B issues which will keep me off ships larger than original seabourn in the future, other than ms europa and residensea.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Apr 12, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Apr 11, 2012, 4:41 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SAP/YYZ
Programs: Persona Non-Status, DYKWIA Club President, Formerly of Pa Kettle Fame
Posts: 348
I was at the Kempinski (Mall of Emirates) in DXB earlier in the month and felt that the hotel did nothing to justify the price tag, other than be attached to the Mall of the Emirates. However, one day I needed an emergency alteration done in time for the Dubai World Cup, I looked around the mall and didn't want to deal with the people there so I came back to the hotel, talked to the concierge and the dress was altered in 1 hour by the in house laundry (quite well may I add).
I've since decided that maybe I don't know what it means to be a luxury hote, but a quality 24 hr concierge is def one of the factors.
I've since decided that maybe I don't know what it means to be a luxury hote, but a quality 24 hr concierge is def one of the factors.
Apr 12, 2012, 12:08 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...odays-wsj.html >
exactly what i just posted about
btw 2 RC docs >
http://corporate.ritzcarlton.com/NR/...0/rcappsum.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/61788953/T...arlton-2-Final
vs FS >
http://jobs.fourseasons.com/workinga...ce_Talbott.pdf
onto WSJ >
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...375500872.html
good so far
i look forward to telling someone that they dont need to use behavioral techniques on me 
lets hope this lacks completeness/context...
makes me think of >
attention to detail is good, but only commit to what you can accomplish, because its far worse to over promise and under deliver
not sure how i feel about that (as someone who doesnt social network)
still bad, but better than putting in air system?
HAH! i wrote that before reading this final part >
well done! ^^
asked three times within 10 minutes of walking in the door, "So where are you coming in from today?" And two of the three times were by the same person within a three-minute span. (The front desk clerk asked the question as I was handing her my credit card, and then asked again as she handed it back.)
they train (or at least used to train) their employees to say "My pleasure" instead of "You're welcome" anytime you thank them for anything. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to deal with human beings capable of conversing on the fly, rather than pre-programmed robots.
(I'd love to see the Ritz Carlton Marina del Rey getting their elevators up and operating rather than focusing on where their guests are coming from. I don't remember the last time all three of the hotel's guest room elevators were working. At least this time two of the three were working; last visit it was just one.)
I just noticed the today's Wall Street Journal features an article entited "Checking In? Hidden Ways Hotels Court Guests Faster," which discusses, among other things, how many hotels are training staff members to be able to better read guests as they walk in the door and to attempt to adjust their interaction accordingly. I recognize that that's a tall task to ask of a hotel's staff -- to be able to accurately read a guests demeanor -- but in my mind it has to be preferable to the automatons at the Ritz.
they train (or at least used to train) their employees to say "My pleasure" instead of "You're welcome" anytime you thank them for anything. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to deal with human beings capable of conversing on the fly, rather than pre-programmed robots.
(I'd love to see the Ritz Carlton Marina del Rey getting their elevators up and operating rather than focusing on where their guests are coming from. I don't remember the last time all three of the hotel's guest room elevators were working. At least this time two of the three were working; last visit it was just one.)
I just noticed the today's Wall Street Journal features an article entited "Checking In? Hidden Ways Hotels Court Guests Faster," which discusses, among other things, how many hotels are training staff members to be able to better read guests as they walk in the door and to attempt to adjust their interaction accordingly. I recognize that that's a tall task to ask of a hotel's staff -- to be able to accurately read a guests demeanor -- but in my mind it has to be preferable to the automatons at the Ritz.
btw 2 RC docs >
http://corporate.ritzcarlton.com/NR/...0/rcappsum.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/61788953/T...arlton-2-Final
vs FS >
http://jobs.fourseasons.com/workinga...ce_Talbott.pdf
onto WSJ >
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...375500872.html
Dazzle guests during the first, crucial 15 minutes of their stay—or at least avoid annoying them...Sending complimentary cups of tea to people who say they have a cold...prettying up lobbies—and even driveways—to...make them easier to navigate
Affinia, has hired a body-language expert to train employees how to read travelers' moods to help figure out the best greeting approach...half-day body-language-training sessions last summer to help them, in part, deal with grumpy customers. The training, run by Patti Wood, an expert with clients ranging from law enforcement to celebrity magazines, offered tips such as: When talking to a frustrated man, stand to his side. With a woman, talk face to face. "Men go to war face to face," she explains. "A man will feel less combative if you show your cheek."
Trump hotel in Toronto...While escorting guests to their rooms, "I really try to think of funny things to say within the first five seconds," says bellman Joshua Schwartz. "If you're from Chicago, I'll say 'Did you bring me a deep dish pizza?'
A prior visit could have been with a previous girlfriend, for example, or a mistress. "You don't always say, 'Welcome back Mr. and Mrs.,' " says Mark Harmon, chief executive of Auberge Resorts, a collection of nine properties. "You have to be careful."
http://www.fa-mag.com/component/cont...xperience.html
first story reminds me of 2nd article here >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12637116-post39.html
first story reminds me of 2nd article here >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12637116-post39.html
ensuring there are no obvious turnoffs, like hairs in the bathroom or stains on the towels, subtler signs can signal a room isn't quite pristine. Lopsided lamp shades, crooked desk pads and magazines askew on coffee tables are no-no's for the housekeepers at the Ritz-Carlton, Toronto, a 14-month-old, 267-room, luxury hotel. "That sends a signal to the guest that something is not quite right and maybe the room is not so clean either," says Tim Terceira, the hotel's general manager.
Peninsula Chicago, children are welcomed to rooms with...martini glasses filled with gummy bears
If employees at the Peninsula Chicago see a tweet from a hotel guest, they'll try to give the person a box of chocolates
hallways at the Gramercy Park Hotel, for instance, motion-sensor devices trigger machines to emit a puff of a sandalwood and cedar fragrance.
HAH! i wrote that before reading this final part >
Trump in Chicago, the hotel tried pumping a scent into its lobby. But after two or three weeks, he yanked it. While many guests liked the smell, Mr. Damelincourt [now GM trump toronto] says, some complained, saying "it stinks."
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Apr 24, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Apr 24, 2012, 8:45 pm
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
staff members are constantly urged to be as innovative and creative in their service as possible to make every interaction with the guests a memorable experience. Most of the managerial and other staff that Amanresorts recruits are primarily people who have had no experience in the hotel industry but possess the right attitude
there is no written manual describing Standard Operating Procedures nor are there any set ways of doing things.
employees act as brand ambassadors. It has managed to do this not through any brand manuals (by and large Amanresorts does not use manuals), but by being a very responsive and caring employer
there is no written manual describing Standard Operating Procedures nor are there any set ways of doing things.
employees act as brand ambassadors. It has managed to do this not through any brand manuals (by and large Amanresorts does not use manuals), but by being a very responsive and caring employer
Apr 25, 2012, 1:21 am
#82
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
Joke with a serious touch
A luxury hotel is a property where staff are better behaving and better dressed than the guests.........
Increasingly this comment of my late father gets a real meaning when I see certain inconsiderate behaviour from fellow guests at Amans and Relais & Chateaux properties. The breeders with their unruly children do not have the exclusivity, but they are most prone to it.
And in a real luxury hotel this scenes are in stark contrast with the perfectly polite staff.
The worst place I have experienced in the world sor far concerning this is not a hotel, but the QF F lounge in SYD
. EVERYTHING goes there.
.Increasingly this comment of my late father gets a real meaning when I see certain inconsiderate behaviour from fellow guests at Amans and Relais & Chateaux properties. The breeders with their unruly children do not have the exclusivity, but they are most prone to it.
And in a real luxury hotel this scenes are in stark contrast with the perfectly polite staff.
The worst place I have experienced in the world sor far concerning this is not a hotel, but the QF F lounge in SYD
. EVERYTHING goes there.
Apr 25, 2012, 11:38 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
obviously US i understand because of its litigiousness, but why couldnt a property elsewhere have an enforced behavior standard
edit - bottom line, i think behavior is what matters. but if an establishment publishes rules, not enforcing those rules is an example of poor behavior/service on its part. basically punishing those who follow the rules.
its unfortunate i cant find something im sure i posted - someone traveling with young child on orient express sent them a video of their child either dining at home or at a fine dining restaurant in order to get them to waive the age requirement for the dining car. pretty sure it was orient express, but cant find age requirement. (orient express - VSOE - their train)
A hotel capacity of less than 100 rooms, the worldwide average being 29 rooms
Membership of Relais & Châteaux is mentioned along with the property name when answering the phone.
Recommendation
A reservation for the restaurant or other hotel activities (spa...) must be proposed to the guest
A reservation for the restaurant or other hotel activities (spa...) must be proposed to the guest
Recommendations
A menu with no prices is presented to the guest’s accompanying persons
A menu with no prices is presented to the guest’s accompanying persons
-
I’d never met Gary Tyson, Amantaka’s General Manager, before this stay, but given what he’s accomplished at Amantaka, he is someone we will now follow to whatever resort he happens to oversee. What he has done in creating service standards of the utmost polish and skill in a location where there was no former 5-star experience from which to draw, is astounding. (And if you get a chance, have him tell you about the process he went through of hiring and training new employees in a “fake Amantaka” he created to serve as a training site during the construction of the resort.)
Aman resorts have spoiled many of us by setting the highest bar in the world for service and housekeeping standards, and even within this stiff competition, Amantaka rises to the very top.
Aman resorts have spoiled many of us by setting the highest bar in the world for service and housekeeping standards, and even within this stiff competition, Amantaka rises to the very top.
owner said he declined to cooperate with travel agencies for fear of them bringing in group tourists
In a costly move to attract the target customers, the hotel slashed the number of guestrooms and used the limited space to erect an authentic Thai-style spa and a French bar.
considerate service, as well as the close connection that hotel guests experience with members of staff, is what distinguishes boutique hotels from their standardized cousins. At the former, staff are instructed to remember guests' names
"Workers' loyalty and their mentality are more important at boutique hotels. The human resources staff have a lot to do regarding issues involving workers' motivation, evaluation and loyalty,"
In a costly move to attract the target customers, the hotel slashed the number of guestrooms and used the limited space to erect an authentic Thai-style spa and a French bar.
considerate service, as well as the close connection that hotel guests experience with members of staff, is what distinguishes boutique hotels from their standardized cousins. At the former, staff are instructed to remember guests' names
"Workers' loyalty and their mentality are more important at boutique hotels. The human resources staff have a lot to do regarding issues involving workers' motivation, evaluation and loyalty,"
another RC doc for portman shanghai, same thing different links >
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/5aa22940-...00779e2340.pdf
http://media.ft.com/cms/5aa22940-74a...00779e2340.pdf
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...53Qjj4R81V1r7g
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Jun 25, 2013 at 12:34 pm
Apr 25, 2012, 9:10 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
. Poorly behaving guests can spoil the luxury experience and an enforcement of dress code is for the good of all. I know that places like Aman do not enforce anything and this works if all are respectful. Places like Salzburg and Glyndebourne show that you can get people dressed up (at 99 %) by simple social pressure.Just remember that middle aged fat guy on the verandah at Amangalla with a very unsexy tank top and barefoot (one foot on the coffee table) - I escaped to the pool.
Dress code (and why not restrictions on children) are an essential part of a luxury hotel and definitely make the place being such - period!
Apr 25, 2012, 9:28 pm
#85
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SEA
Programs: Million Miles achieved | 2017 Delta Platinum, United NADA, Global Entry, PreCheck, NEXUS
Posts: 1,295
I absolutely agree with this. The thing I hate most is I arrange the clock, telephone, light etc. so I can read and have a conveniently organized lounging area. It's like most housekeepers have a built in reset button.
Jan 26, 2013, 12:15 pm
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...ab3_story.html
We don’t have check-in times
How do you juggle the logistics of different check-in and check-out times?
Believe me, we were worried about that — we said, how are we going to do this? But we just started scheduling things differently, staggering maid service. We have some maids start at 6 o’clock. As soon as a guest leaves, they prepare the room. We make it to the guests’ convenience. We have enough people arrive very late that it always works out. In general, it’s a non-issue.
How do you juggle the logistics of different check-in and check-out times?
Believe me, we were worried about that — we said, how are we going to do this? But we just started scheduling things differently, staggering maid service. We have some maids start at 6 o’clock. As soon as a guest leaves, they prepare the room. We make it to the guests’ convenience. We have enough people arrive very late that it always works out. In general, it’s a non-issue.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Feb 28, 2013 at 4:09 pm
Feb 5, 2013, 6:06 am
#88
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 983
Feb 6, 2013, 3:59 am
#90
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: India
Posts: 2
In my opinion it is the services provided by the hotel that classify it as a 5 star, 4 star or a 3 star hotel. Ambiance does not matter so much if you get high quality services. The staff has to be attentive and friendly as well.