Epicura

I have clients booked (family of 5) for early July but I am pretty sure they will not able to travel, even if they would want to. If there's any feedback to share in the upcoming months, I will update but chances are next to 0.

Can certainly not be compared with rates for a private beach resort in a different location. At time of booking Singita and Bisate were already fully booked so for high end lodges there was not much left.

Just FYI: in general for Africa try to work with a TA who has contracts with the best local DMC's. Better rates and the best chance to have easy access to transfers and extra's (in this case not even an extra but rather a necessity) like gorilla permits etc (only 100 per day). Just my 2 cents.

jiaotze

We are booked at Bisate and Nyungwe House for mid-July. A couple of months ago, I was still holding out hope, but I think the chances now are virtually nil that things will be open. I haven't seen Rwanda make any announcements as to their re-opening date. And even if they do open their borders, quarantine restrictions would probably make short trips there unfeasible for the time being. It's also uncertain when various int'l carriers to KGL will resume flights. To expect these issues to be worked out in two months is pretty wishful thinking.



To be sure, the prices are unbelievably high for the gorilla-area camps. W/o local knowledge, I'm unsure if it is the handful of high-end camps milking their guests or if local taxes/fees and the like are responsible for pushing prices so high.



It does seem, however, the Rwanda is looking to follow the Botswana model in its pricing and target clientele, as the top-end places in Botswana are priced similarly (but granted you don't have to buy an extra gorilla trekking permit).

KI-NRT

The prices of Gorilla lodges are a reflection of the extremely limited supply. First off, there are only so many habituated Mountain Gorilla families in existence, and visits to each family are limited to groups of a maximum of 8 people. Because of the limits on guest numbers as well as the high permit prices, lodges are able to command a very high premium.

One thing to note - one's choice of accommodations is far less important than a traditional safari camp/lodge in places like Botswana or Kenya. In those places, the better camps typically have better guides and are often offer superior wildlife experiences (not to mention the elevated levels of comfort/convenience/service/F&B.) For Volcanoes National Park in Rwanda, location is less of an issue - everyone will depart at an ungodly hour, and everyone will convene at the park headquarters to be divided up into groups of eight - there is no advantage of getting there before others; you'll just be sitting there waiting for everyone else to arrive. From there, you're in the hands of the park rangers, trackers and guides, and not the property staff (they only drive you to the headquarters, that's it.)

At the lodges themselves, you're not going to have opportunities to view big game (unlike at a safari camp), and even if you do, it's not like the luxury camps are necessarily better situated for such chance encounters.

If budget permits, obviously a luxury lodge in Rwanda is preferred. But be aware it won't offer the same caliber of differentiated experience that is the norm in other areas of Eastern and Southern Africa.

jja34-1

This. Supply and demand. We booked (via a TA active in Africa) in the second week of January for Christmas and New Years. Bisate and Singita were already fully booked so we went with O&O. Hopefully we will still be able to make the trip. O&O's prices are per person. Interesting that they were willing to sell us rooms for single occupancy with no single supplement, while both Bisate and Singita had hefty single supplements, particularly during the festive period. I understand Bisate and SIngita are much smaller properties but I found O&Os approach interesting.

HumbleBee

Any recommendation for travel agents with O&O deals? Can't even get Gorilla Nest to populate on Citi's Thank You booking engine.

stimpy

Just saw this thread. I was based in Uganda recently and did some DIY trips out to see the animals for more than 90% less than the luxury tours. And I stayed in luxurious lodgings or luxurious by Uganda standards. Uganda by any means is cheaper than Rwanda. Congo is significantly cheaper than both, but comes with risk and an essential requirement to speak French and be accustomed to the African way of doing things. DIY is not for everyone, but if you like that sort of thing, I highly recommend it when in Africa.

The last time I checked Uganda is now open to tourists as long as they have a PCR test before arriving.

PTVIE

Dear fellow travelers,

has someone a direct mail to Nyungwe House, she or he could provide me with?

The agent one reaches with [email protected] sits in Kigali and is super difficult to deal with and I I'm no longer willing to do so.

Kind regards,
PTVIE

jja34-1

I was just there and have the email of the area lodge manager (from the post-stay survey). Feel free to PM me.

PTVIE

Thanks a lot for your offer! Hope your stay was a great experience.

In the meantime I was already in contact with the management, which left me stunned.

In a nutshell:

Junior management is telling me they have the same problem with other clients too and asking me if I can provide them with my solution.

Senior management is saying they don't care about activities, their role is to provide me with a hotel and he is not a travel agent.

Let's see how the hotel is then....

If "the other clients" are reading flyertalk, feel free to contact me.

CanaryWharf

Any recent experiences at either of the two O&Os in Rwanda? Planning a trip there in January.

Singita and Gorilla’s Nest seem to have roughly same pricing.

PTVIE

I was at O&O Nyungwe House last August, my worst O&O experience ever, while being at the Hotel I cancelled my stay in Dubai as I was shocked how badly run it was.

I was staying in one of the 2-bedroom villas, first of all the floor and tables were extremely dirty- they had to send in the housekeeping twice until you could walk around and your soles didn't turn black.

Several light switches broken, you couldn't turn off one light at all in one bedroom, the Fireplace broken too, in one bathroom was a hole in the wall as a piece of art was missing.

When we arrived the glasses in the "minibar" were still dirty from the previous guests and things like that. So they really didn't bother to properly clean anything during covid times.

Even though they were at 30% occupancy the Spa was close to fully booked.

They are one of the few luxury lodges in Africa without butler service, while in the previous lodge I was woken up with my choice of beverage and snack, they simply called you. Other guests thought it was a joke when they explained them the procedure during dinner as they were confused why they didn't take any order for the morning.

The only positive aspect of the O&O was everything around F&B, here the service was really attentive and food was excellence, the standard wine were ok, premium wines came at a steep premium (Cloudy Bay around 300$ net- if I remember correctly).


At the O&O I met a very luxury travel experienced couple who came from the Singita and the Magashi camp, they really enjoyed those.

If I would recommend something, I would do:
1 Night Kigali (the Marriott was okay, many diplomats and expats staying there)

3 Nights around Virunga (we were very, very satisfied with the Governor's Camp- quite old school, dinner was good, but a lovely Management Couple, she was working previously for Cartier? in the VIP and Marketing Team, he was in the finance sector) and most important they had the very experienced driver Theo, who knew the right people...
Otherwise I would stay at Singita, as it was quite close to the meeting point, Bisate lodge is super far away and O&O is in the middle of the village.

3 Nights at Magashi Camp, for a "normal" Safari experience

I would not return to Nyungwe House, not worth the detour and really not worth the rack rate.

CanaryWharf

Wow, that doesn’t sound good! I called the O&O Nyungwe yesterday to ask a couple of questions and the person I was speaking to appeared to be in a bad mood and was not giving any useful answers. Not really what you would expect from this type of property!

I’ll do some more research about Gorilla’s Nest as that was the one I’m more interested in.

SFOtoanywhere

I am a travel advisor/safari planner and much prefer Kwitonda and Bisate to Gorilla's Nest. It's a distant 3rd for me. I think Nyungwe is fine for a couple of extra days, but feel that money could be better spent elsewhere. I do like Magashi, but would put it before gorillas. For Kigali, I think The Retreat is the best option and am a big fan of all that the owners are doing as far as hospitality training for the locals. Great restaurants also.

jja34-1

I would not hesitate to opt for Singita Kwitonda. It is quite possibly the best African lodge experience I have ever had. Gorilla's Nest has received all the press and deserves its reputation based on what guests we ran into said about the lodge, but I don't think it's as well located as Singita. We stayed in Kataza House so my view is slightly skewed, but we spent a lot of time in the main lodge at Kwitonda and there is no way to describe it other than "special".

jja34-1

I'm sad to read this. We had a wonderful stay at Nywungwe House and enjoyed our chats with management. We also enjoyed all of the activities around the area and thought 2-3 days was about right.