Amanresorts Thread 2019
#76
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
I have long come to accept (and love) the fact that some of the best Amans are indeed not Amans these days. We will likely not see Aman BKK in the near or distant future, though I think we can all agree that The Siam is the most wonderful city Aman anyone could think of. Service is beyond expectations, as is room count and the certain familiarity and love that flows through the property. Same in HK, where in my opinion The Upper House is where most here on this forum feel at home and undoubtedly better cared for than, for example, at Aman Tokyo. Aman Tokyo is wildly successful and almost always close to capacity due to social media, press/social media coverage and company/contracted rates, but I cannot get over the fact that there is a certain arrogance surrounding the hotel, which is very unfortunate. The machine-written welcome cards are just the first indication, but closely followed by interactions with team and management. They don't care and if you don't like it there is already another guest waiting patiently in the lobby beyond check-in time to experience that 'amazing' hard product in the sky. It would be entirely uncharacteristic for Nick at The Siam or Marcel at TUH to let anyone leave without having made an impression through the team or extending a certain level of care and consideration. Because it is personal to them, sadly it's not personal to anyone at Aman Tokyo. GMs come and go, occupancy is still great (so are the returns) and locals drive F&B revenue. It can be very subtle but this element of caring about the guest is totally missing with these city Amans. I cannot imagine it will be any better in New York, London or Singapore, if anything it will be worse. So I think my decision to follow the people who have Aman DNA and bring that to their respective properties is not too bad, it is about people after all. And we still have many of the golden days around, though less and less by the day it seems. Some don't know that VD is also one of the original '88 Amanjunkies and knows the resorts inside out, though I wonder how this translates into these future and current offerings. Many improvements for the better surely, though some of the pitfalls back then were more generously dealt with as it was about the guest after all, these days select guests are treated to Aman-"style" service levels in Tokyo, though the answer is a dedicated manager dealing with VIPs, moguls, "Instagrammers", celebrities and most importantly fashion designers... much like the big chains trying to deal with non-existent service levels in difficult markets with low yields.
Interestingly, I fondly remember when many years ago an Aman had failed me and I carefully mentioned this post check out. Within a few hours (!), the Grays, Olivia and Monty had all emailed me regarding my future reservations with them, asking me what happened and offered to make up for the disappointment in such a generous manner, I was at a loss of words. Various extravagant amenities were waiting in each of the respective resorts after that and we were speaking for ages about our "Aman Adventures". I couldn't imagine this happening today, I am almost certain it would be impossible in this climate. For those having their first Aman stays these days, I don't think it is imaginable how different it was.
Interestingly, I fondly remember when many years ago an Aman had failed me and I carefully mentioned this post check out. Within a few hours (!), the Grays, Olivia and Monty had all emailed me regarding my future reservations with them, asking me what happened and offered to make up for the disappointment in such a generous manner, I was at a loss of words. Various extravagant amenities were waiting in each of the respective resorts after that and we were speaking for ages about our "Aman Adventures". I couldn't imagine this happening today, I am almost certain it would be impossible in this climate. For those having their first Aman stays these days, I don't think it is imaginable how different it was.
And without the high level of service that compares with that of The Upper House, the putative Aman Hong Kong would be just as disappointing to me as the Aman Tokyo—especially based on the relative rates charged.
Heck, without the high level of food/beverage that compares with that of The Upper House, the putative Aman Hong Kong would be just as disappointing to me as the Aman Tokyo—again based on the relative rate charged.
Again, it’s not that hard to build a more luxurious, more impressive hard product. Heck, the Conrad Osaka lobby may even surpass that of the Aman Tokyo.
It’s much more difficult to create a truly impressive service atmosphere. Lately, it seems that Aman doesn’t even try to achieve the high level of service for which it was known best—or even think it has to try. Aman instead is now focusing entirely on offering the best hard product.
Aman used to get away with just fine food/beverage because its hard product and service otheriwde were so much better than everyone else. Now Aman is trying to get away with only the best hard product.
Now other hoteliers have caught on and caught up.
HK has the highest concentration of 5* hotels in the world. Vlad's version of big city Aman has no chance of competing for my business. None. The best hotel in, say, Singapore doesn't make the top 10 (50?) in HK. Aman HK would just be another decent, yet expensive hotel in HK. He's going to have this problem in NYC. He won't knock out the Mark and the other 15 good hotels. Aman Tokyo, if transplanted to HK, might make the top 15. Maybe not ... on second thought ... for discussion. ASP, the other big city Aman, embarrassingly anchors the Aman chain in a bad way. Not as bad as FS Sydney for Four Seasons, but in the running.
UH is hard to beat. I just wish the food improved.
Agree.
UH is hard to beat. I just wish the food improved.
Agree.
Regarding Vlad:
Yeah -- He more or less says exactly that in the quote in the final paragraph. The wish list is all big cities. Have we reached a consensus here as to whether (big city) Aman Tokyo is an 'Aman' and successful? I'm still skeptical and leaning towards 'no'. And ASP is a disaster -- that is the only other big city Aman in the present inventory. I wish Vlad good luck in HK. His chances of being successful with the Aman concept in that city are zero.
Yeah -- He more or less says exactly that in the quote in the final paragraph. The wish list is all big cities. Have we reached a consensus here as to whether (big city) Aman Tokyo is an 'Aman' and successful? I'm still skeptical and leaning towards 'no'. And ASP is a disaster -- that is the only other big city Aman in the present inventory. I wish Vlad good luck in HK. His chances of being successful with the Aman concept in that city are zero.
Something like TUH would have been good for a central location though .
Pair stay then with No’i and / or Pulo
AmanTokyo was a pleasant surprise for us , service almost what we receive at other AMANs .
We shall see how she holds up during the RWC , when we stay again in October / November . Perhaps even get to sight the GM this time , she away when we stayed last year ..
( I know Nemu is all set )
AMANjunkies FTers Do ?
Has anyone noticed that the GMs seem to be off site more often these days ?
Some , thankfully , have capable HMs who have often been in the AMAN fold longer than the GMs , and understand the original ethos .
Many currently on EU sales events / trips ..
Hope VD remembers meaning of AMAN ( and has an understanding of it ) .
Last edited by FlyerEC; Jan 31, 2019 at 5:08 am Reason: iPad typo !
#77
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,379
yeah, nah...I'm still not getting the 'Aman is going down the drain' comments here. 5 Aman stays last year, the most recent one at Amandari in December and all has been well, very well indeed. I agree that a city property may not be able to capture the magic of say Jiwo or Kila but hey, no one is forcing you to say there and the 'old' properties remain exceptional :-)
#78
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Virtuoso | Four Seasons Preferred Partner | Rosewood Elite | Hyatt Prive - and more
Posts: 2,096
From a 'resort' style standpoint, the ideal place would be Tai Long Wan.
But the resort would have to close a few months each year (or operate at very low occupancy) which doesn't make sense in Hong Kong - but also, I don't think guests are coming to Hong Kong to experience the beach (they're usually ON their way to the beach). You would get some staycationers, especially on nice days, but not enough to make up for it.
Putting a hotel in Stanley/Tai Tam/Peak would face the same issues.
Having said that, that's essentially how Amanyangyun operates so...remains to be seen.
It would have to be a central situation - Upper House etc would have been perfect.
#79
This gave me a good laugh... The first image shows the price for two adults at Amankila in the 2 bedroom suite on the Romance Package, the second image for three adults. Getting two rooms would save me a dollar or two if my math is correct.
Dates: 15-19 July 2019 for those who'd like to verify the issue.
Dates: 15-19 July 2019 for those who'd like to verify the issue.
#80
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,599
So visionary.. you can buy the entire resort online!
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
but re HK, would any land be available for lease/sale..
re seasonal, zoe/residences closes 4 months a year
kyoto with 24 rooms and 2 villas is interesting for city
re kerry hill (and long aman development time)
issuu.com/mondiale/docs/sleeper72
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hiAzUrlDrhUJ:https://issuu.com/mondiale/docs/sleeper72&strip=1&vwsrc=0
re seasonal, zoe/residences closes 4 months a year
kyoto with 24 rooms and 2 villas is interesting for city
re kerry hill (and long aman development time)
issuu.com/mondiale/docs/sleeper72
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hiAzUrlDrhUJ:https://issuu.com/mondiale/docs/sleeper72&strip=1&vwsrc=0
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Feb 11, 2019 at 12:47 pm
#84
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Virtuoso | Four Seasons Preferred Partner | Rosewood Elite | Hyatt Prive - and more
Posts: 2,096
With lease, don't expect much in a central area opening up for hotel space. For lease and/or sale, the only possible option I can think off quickly would be the old Excelsior (Mandarin Oriental) which is shutting down but rumours are that they're going to tear down the building to make way for an A-grade offfice space.
I definitely don't see Aman buying property in Hong Kong to build a hotel - leasing would be the only option - unless done in conjunction with a property developer like SHK/MTR (who own Four Seasons and Ritz-Carlton and W).
For the idea of building a more unique Aman in Hong Kong (e.g. Stanley/Tai Tam etc) there's always villas or plots of land or groups of villas being sold in regions like that - but it wouldn't make financial sense with the occupancy rates that Aman would attract in such a location.
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
sorry, i meant including Tai Long Wan that you mentioned
residences can make 'buying' work, NYC as one example
jardines announced redevelopment of excelsior
might have considered JV deal with residences
interesting it is such a historical piece of land
(LMO site originally owned by peninsula parent co)
residences can make 'buying' work, NYC as one example
jardines announced redevelopment of excelsior
might have considered JV deal with residences
interesting it is such a historical piece of land
(LMO site originally owned by peninsula parent co)
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Feb 11, 2019 at 12:47 pm
#86
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Virtuoso | Four Seasons Preferred Partner | Rosewood Elite | Hyatt Prive - and more
Posts: 2,096
It's protected country park.
There were plans to build a resort there, and a developer started digging a few years back but it was stopped - and thankfully. An Aman would be great there (apart from the weather etc issues) due to low room count etc, but the original plans were for a 600+ room behemoth. The beach is stunning, water is very nice too. But again, you get into the issue of why people are coming to Hong Kong - I don't think it would really sell although it would definitely be unique.
There are some beach-ish resorts in Hong Kong that do sell (Gold Coast by SINO Hotels - though not luxe) - but they operate in a totally different price range (USD 150/night, USD 200/night etc).
Aman would be charging closer to USD 1,000/night for a place like that, no one would go except the very odd staycationer/local Amanjunkie.
Don't think many are coming to Hong Kong to experience beach, as nice as that beach is.
It's accessible via other methods, including a heli ride on Peninsula's helicopter (or their yacht or any charter boat in Hong Kong can also go there).
There were plans to build a resort there, and a developer started digging a few years back but it was stopped - and thankfully. An Aman would be great there (apart from the weather etc issues) due to low room count etc, but the original plans were for a 600+ room behemoth. The beach is stunning, water is very nice too. But again, you get into the issue of why people are coming to Hong Kong - I don't think it would really sell although it would definitely be unique.
There are some beach-ish resorts in Hong Kong that do sell (Gold Coast by SINO Hotels - though not luxe) - but they operate in a totally different price range (USD 150/night, USD 200/night etc).
Aman would be charging closer to USD 1,000/night for a place like that, no one would go except the very odd staycationer/local Amanjunkie.
Don't think many are coming to Hong Kong to experience beach, as nice as that beach is.
It's accessible via other methods, including a heli ride on Peninsula's helicopter (or their yacht or any charter boat in Hong Kong can also go there).
#87
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
I see that Amanpuri is launching Aman's medi-spa concept, including hormone injections, on-site doctor, botox etc - not what one expects of the normally holistic Aman.
#90
formerly known as deathscar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Virtuoso | Four Seasons Preferred Partner | Rosewood Elite | Hyatt Prive - and more
Posts: 2,096